Of course, and as usual, you are just making up stuff and really do not have a handle on what the Buddha taught.
- That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana. -- S.N. IV 251 and IV 321
That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is asankhata ["unconditioned"]. -- S.N. IV 359 and S.N. 362
The Buddha clearly did not say that nibbana is a condition for the destruction of greed, hatred, and delusion.
For destruction there must be some explosion, some revelation, some insight. I remember you said that there is no destruction of greed hatred and delusion without insight.
This insight is actualy Nibbana. The revelation.
The "revelation" have no any existance, but there is revelation, and this profound revelation of true nature of fenomenas - anatta, take a place of condition. It's like when you dreaming, when you open your eyes, there is destruction of dream. But you must to open your eyes. This openning, is insight, is condition.
Samsara, and dhammas, still the same, but it become Nibbana, it become free from ego, it become anatta.
Once i read some zen text, where one man explain his insight like this : Master, before i saw trees, rivers, peoples... BUT NOW, i see trees, rivers and peoples.
It's exactly like this. Nothink change, but all change. It's paradoxal, but it's like this.
tiltbillings wrote:If what you are saying is true, then that would mean that nibbana is a preexisting thing, which the Buddha did not teach and that it is a conditioned thing, which the Buddha did not teach. If nibbana already existed in the individual, there would be no need to for doing the practice, because the individual would have no greed, hatred or delusion.
Actualy the similie with a circle, with a wheel, is perfect. Becaose it's exactly like this.
Circle have a hole, and without hole there is no cercle, actualy hole is the most important part of cercle, but there is no hole.
And when it's revelated, self-identification stops, because you see that form it's not mine, feeling it's not mine, perception it's not mine, volitional formation it's not mine, consciosness it's not mine. So there is great freedom from all which established. This freedom is not somethink that have self-existance, it's exist until there is jail. Freedom is Nibbana. And when the body die, there is a final liberation, final Nibbana.
For the one who is in jail, "freedom" conception can take some self-existantial form, but actualy all is free, conception of freedom exist until you are in jail, but in reality there is no any freedom like conception or self-existant think, because dhammas are free from ego by their nature.
Ajhan Mun said this:
§14. Activityless-ness is the end point of the world, beyond supposing and formulation.
The four Noble Truths — suffering, its cause, its cessation, and the path to its cessation — are activities in that each truth has an aspect that has to be done: Suffering has to be understood, its cause abandoned, its cessation made clear, and the path to its cessation developed. All of these are aspects that have to be done — and if they have to be done, they must be activities. So we can conclude that all four truths are activities. This is in keeping with the first verse quoted above, which speaks of the four truths as feet, stair treads, or steps that must be taken for the task to be finished. What follows is thus termed activityless-ness — like writing the numerals 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0, then erasing 1-9, leaving just 0, and not writing anything more. What is left is read as 'zero,' but it doesn't have any value at all. You can't use it to add, subtract, multiply, or divide with any other numerals, yet at the same time you can't say that it doesn't exist, for there it is: 0 (zero).
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eased.html
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A cercle with a hole is a perfect exemple of Nibbana/Samsara.
Wheel of Dhamma, is not a wheel just for fun, actualy in this Wheel, there is all Dhamma. Thats why it's said "Dhamma Wheel"
All fenomenas have a cyclic existance, their form is cercle. In state of relaxation (freedom), for exemple a drop of water in space, dhammas take their true form, sphere.
Cercle is endowed of equnanimity and wisdom, because to center from surface there is the same distance, because from center all surface is visible without contact, there is no left or right, up or dawn, there is no space, there is no good or bad, pleasure or pain. Also there is no mouvement of center, so there is no time, there is no agging or death.
Also Buddha said that there is no begining to Samsara, why? Because when we walk on the surface of the cercle, of the sphere of existance, there is no begining and no end.
Thats why it said that "Liberated by wisdom", or "Nibbana is reached by the wise", or "Nibbana is visible for the wise". It's because Dhamma is a Wheel, and the wheel is a form of wisdom and equnanimity.
tiltbillings wrote:Whih goes to show how poorly you understand the issues at hand. That a criminal may not abide by the laws, does not mean that as an actor he is unconditioned by the laws, which he will have knowledge of and act in ways to try to avoid the consequences of them. And you make my point, you are trying to turn nibbana into some thing that acts, which means it is a conditioned, changing thing.
I read this stuff you are writing, and I wonder whether you are simply pulling my leg with the stuff you are writing.
I'am a not expert in killer behavour, but it's true that laws have some influence on his behavour, but not the behavour of "killing", and ancrualy peoples dont affraid this man, but his killing behavour, and they are conditioned by it.
No, not exaclty.
Nibbana dont act, but all action are conditioned by it, all actions turn around it, enfluenced by it, lead to it etc. You will ask me, how dhammas are leaded to Nibbana? Absolutely naturaly. All energy, all fenomena, when arise, she goes from agitating state (born, agging) to calm state (death). So their nature lead them to their true state.
In nature, on the beach, you can take a note that all waves goes to the ground, and that there is no waves without ground.
Like it's said
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.
This why i say that Nibbana (freedom, calm, stability) is conditioning factor for dhammas, is true nature of dhammas. Like a hole is nature of wheel.