Buddhism cult

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
nibbuti
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by nibbuti » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:03 pm

ignobleone wrote:When I ask what clues he has concerning the 1st jhana, I don't see he has some other things beside the jhana factors.
Hi ignobleone

Obviously that's what the Buddha taught.
ignobleone wrote:I wonder if he has categorized people including himself (into 'clueless' and 'not clueless' category) correctly
We're all clueless to certain extent so long as we haven't eradicated all fetters.

A reminder of that is worth gold, as it does not unnecessarily build up false expectations.

The Dhamma practise is not like collecting trick-or-treat candy, but rather like peeling off onion layers.
Should one a man of wisdom meet
who points out faults and gives reproof,
who lays a hidden treasure bare,
with such a sage should one consort.
Consorting so is one enriched
and never in decline
. - Dhp verse 76
ignobleone wrote:weird views on jhana.
Most if not all descriptions/views of jhana I've read by respected teachers and good men were weird and not helpful.

There's a reason the Buddha only gave us a short formula in all the 10'000s of suttas, and it's not because "jhana was common back then". ;)

Just practise the Noble Eightful Path thoroughly and you'll see for yourself.

:namaste:

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:53 am

nibbuti wrote: :namaste:
Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.

nibbuti
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by nibbuti » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:20 am

ignobleone wrote:Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.
No problem, friend. What is true & beneficial (Dhamma) can be seen by the wise for oneself w/o argueing, denomination or personality view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi).

:meditate:

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by Cittasanto » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:00 am

:rofl: :popcorn:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

Dinsdale
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:43 am

Anyway, Buddhists aren't very good at cults because they're always asking questions... :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:21 pm

nibbuti wrote:
ignobleone wrote:Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.
No problem, friend. What is true & beneficial (Dhamma) can be seen by the wise for oneself w/o argueing, denomination or personality view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi).

:meditate:
The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by acinteyyo » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:32 pm

ignobleone wrote:
nibbuti wrote:
ignobleone wrote:Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.
No problem, friend. What is true & beneficial (Dhamma) can be seen by the wise for oneself w/o argueing, denomination or personality view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi).

:meditate:
The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.
You don't neet do be a buddhist to be able to see the Dhamma.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:53 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote: The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.
You don't neet do be a buddhist to be able to see the Dhamma.
Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.

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Aloka
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by Aloka » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:11 pm

ignobleone wrote: Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.
So do you consider that you understand "higher level, sublime Dhamma" yourself, ignobleone ?

.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by acinteyyo » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:22 pm

ignobleone wrote:
acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote: The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.
You don't neet do be a buddhist to be able to see the Dhamma.
Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.
This may be so, but being a "buddhist" is not a required condition to see higher Dhamma. I would say Mr. Gotama himself wasn't a "buddhist"...
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:39 pm

Greetings,
ignobleone wrote:Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.
Oooh... be careful. That's how "Buddhist" cults start!

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:33 pm

Aloka wrote:
ignobleone wrote: Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.
So do you consider that you understand "higher level, sublime Dhamma" yourself, ignobleone ?

.
I never mean to say so. It's just for an information. Ehipassiko or just leave it.

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:37 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote: Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.
This may be so, but being a "buddhist" is not a required condition to see higher Dhamma. I would say Mr. Gotama himself wasn't a "buddhist"...
buddhists = have sadha, non-buddhists = don't have
buddhist = Buddha follower, Mr. Gotama = follows himself? Please give me a break!

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:38 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
ignobleone wrote:Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.
Oooh... be careful. That's how "Buddhist" cults start!

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)
Also be careful you need to be able to recognize Buddhist cults.

:juggling:

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism cult

Post by Cittasanto » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:45 pm

ignobleone wrote:
acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote: Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.
This may be so, but being a "buddhist" is not a required condition to see higher Dhamma. I would say Mr. Gotama himself wasn't a "buddhist"...
buddhists = have sadha, non-buddhists = don't have
buddhist = Buddha follower, Mr. Gotama = follows himself? Please give me a break!
so a non-buddhist can not have faith that there is enlightenment, a way to enlightenment, and those who have practiced rightly so can declare that path? I think the Jain have faith, maybe from a Buddhist perspective in the wrong place but they have faith.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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