Dream World v Real World!

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
James the Giant
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by James the Giant » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:26 am

Mr Man wrote: So it is okay to quote Hollywood movies but not Nisargadatta Maharaj? This topic is in "Open Dhamma"
Ok, as long as people know you're quoting a Hindu opinion, not a Buddhist one.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4619
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:51 am

Magoo wrote:
ground wrote: When there is this then that will arise.
:sage:
Just to add to this and something that I have only just read that Ajahn Sumedho wrote and is very profound and that is that the above should read:

"When there is this, then this will arise." (rather than this and that) This difference is subtle but significant in my view.

With MeggaMetta
Eamonn
Hi,

could you give me the source for that, please?

Thanks.

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by Hanzze » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:43 am

As for "this and that" it's maybe more importand that there does not arise something if there is, or?

When this is, that is (Imasmim sati idam hoti)
This arising, that arises (Imassuppada idam uppajjati)
When this is not that is not (Imasmim asati idam na hoti)
This ceasing, that ceases (Imassa nirodha idam nirujjhati)



This sutta might maybe mergle the OP and the present stream of discussion:
Loka Sutta: (Qualities of) the World

At Savatthi. As he was sitting to one side, King Pasenadi Kosala said to the Blessed One: "How many qualities of the world that, when arising, arise for harm, stress, & discomfort?"

"Three qualities of the world, great king, when arising, arise for harm, stress, & discomfort. Which three? Greed, great king, is a quality of the world that, when arising, arises for harm, stress, & discomfort. Aversion... Delusion is a quality of the world that, when arising, arises for harm, stress, & discomfort. These are the three qualities of the world, great king, that when arising, arise for harm, stress, & discomfort."

That is what the Blessed One said.
Having said that, the One Well-Gone, the Teacher, said further:
Greed, aversion,
& delusion
— born from oneself —
destroy the person
of evil awareness,
as its own fruit,
the reed.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by equilibrium » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:53 pm

James the Giant wrote:
Mr Man wrote: So it is okay to quote Hollywood movies but not Nisargadatta Maharaj? This topic is in "Open Dhamma"
Ok, as long as people know you're quoting a Hindu opinion, not a Buddhist one.
It really does not matter where the sources comes from, what is more important is what you have read and what it means to you.
One should be able to "filter out" what is important and what is not.....remember, always focus on the original statement.....the task in hand.

I'd like to thank those so far who have made a contribution so far.

Later I will provide some more clues.....it is going to be a very interesting journey.

User avatar
James the Giant
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by James the Giant » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:36 pm

equilibrium wrote: It really does not matter where the sources comes from, what is more important is what you have read and what it means to you.
Well, sorry to be a fundamentalist, but if "what it means to you" is that the Hindu view of maya is true... well, sorry, that's simply wrong.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by equilibrium » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:17 pm

"if".....well, that would mean someone is jumping to conclusions.....is it not?

Anyway, as mentioned before, it really doesn't matter.....where ever it comes from, it may be relevant or has interesting views on the subject.
We are all trying to escape so we can be free, it is the purpose that is more important.

We are all born not knowing and it can be learned.

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by reflection » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:35 pm

When you are not mindful you are almost as if sleeping - everything is foggy and hazy. Most people live like that their entire life. That's the important 'dreaming' we have to worry about if you ask me. Because when mindfulness is strong, perception is stronger, colors are much brighter, sounds are sharper. A simple leaf can be like an entire world, a candle like a solar system. Everything is more clear and vibrant and beautiful - it's all like High Definition, most notably the mind, which is also very gentle and easy to keep silent and in control - and is thus in a good state to do contemplation. Too bad the busy environment most of us live in makes it very, very difficult to attain and keep such a state of awareness. But experience it once or twice and you know this is what meditation should lead to - and what being aware is all about. And for the first time in your life you are not 'dreaming'.
Heedfulness is the path to the Deathless. Heedlessness is the path to death. The heedful die not. The heedless are as if dead already.

Clearly understanding this excellence of heedfulness, the wise exult therein and enjoy the resort of the Noble Ones.

User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by equilibrium » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:50 pm

Back to the statement:
The statement needs to be separated into two parts for reasons.
Part 1: "Have you ever had a dream that it was so real, what if you were never to wake up from that dream."
We can now analysis this more closely now.

Part 2: "How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real word?"
One cannot answer this part as this is a question. Part 1 must be known first. We will come back to this later.

Santa100 has kindly provided us with a link in a recent post: MN 106.
So what is Part 1 telling us? What is the hidden message? We are talking about dreams, when one is in a dream, it feels real.....imagine this in your mind. It says what if you were never to wake up.....if one does not wake up, one will always be in a dream.....yes! agree?

Relate the above with MN 106 and what do we have?.....anyone?.....what is it telling you now?

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5016
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:54 pm

James the Giant wrote:
equilibrium wrote: It really does not matter where the sources comes from, what is more important is what you have read and what it means to you.
Well, sorry to be a fundamentalist, but if "what it means to you" is that the Hindu view of maya is true... well, sorry, that's simply wrong.
Relax, James :smile:
Whatever its source, Mr Man's quote was beautifully apt to the discussion and (in itself) not at odds with the dhamma. And no-one, so far as I can see, has even claimed that it was 'true'. :shrug:

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
James the Giant
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by James the Giant » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:25 am

equilibrium wrote:"if".....well, that would mean someone is jumping to conclusions.....is it not?

Anyway, as mentioned before, it really doesn't matter.....where ever it comes from, it may be relevant or has interesting views on the subject.
We are all trying to escape so we can be free, it is the purpose that is more important.

We are all born not knowing and it can be learned.
Okay, you are right. Sorry if I was combative.
And welcome to Dhamma Wheel!
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

twelph
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:03 pm

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by twelph » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:03 am

I've had quite a bit of luck in inducing lucid dreams where I gain complete control of myself and my surroundings for the past 5 years or so. What's really interesting is the times I remember to sit down and meditate. I haven't reached any deep state of concentration yet, as it's a little harder to stay concentrated when you have infinite possibilities to consider. I will keep testing it though, it would be nice to wake up and already have a deep sense of relaxation. Anyone else have experience with meditating while dreaming?

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5016
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:55 am

twelph wrote:Anyone else have experience with meditating while dreaming?
Can't say that I remember doing that, but I can remember dreaming doing lots of other things and every time I woke up I found that the things hadn't actually been done.
:thinking:

Kim

User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by equilibrium » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:28 pm

reflection wrote:When you are not mindful you are almost as if sleeping - everything is foggy and hazy. Most people live like that their entire life. That's the important 'dreaming' we have to worry about if you ask me. Because when mindfulness is strong, perception is stronger, colors are much brighter, sounds are sharper. A simple leaf can be like an entire world, a candle like a solar system. Everything is more clear and vibrant and beautiful - it's all like High Definition, most notably the mind, which is also very gentle and easy to keep silent and in control - and is thus in a good state to do contemplation. Too bad the busy environment most of us live in makes it very, very difficult to attain and keep such a state of awareness. But experience it once or twice and you know this is what meditation should lead to - and what being aware is all about. And for the first time in your life you are not 'dreaming'.
Heedfulness is the path to the Deathless. Heedlessness is the path to death. The heedful die not. The heedless are as if dead already.

Clearly understanding this excellence of heedfulness, the wise exult therein and enjoy the resort of the Noble Ones.
Very good relection.....this is exactly what we are trying to achieve.....awareness and mindfullness.....no one can do it for you.....it must be done by the self.
The quotation you provided is at the end of the path.....this is where we all want to be....to be free.

Notice heedfulness leads to "Deathless".
Notice heedful "die not".

This is what we all want to get to, the target at least.....Since you have provided, we should take these as our clues to this thread so to help human beings to realize for themselves.

When one arrives at this level.....everything becomes crystal clear.

Now add these clues to the statement and think about it.......for yourself...........where does it fit into and why?

User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by equilibrium » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:57 pm

James the Giant wrote:
equilibrium wrote:"if".....well, that would mean someone is jumping to conclusions.....is it not?

Anyway, as mentioned before, it really doesn't matter.....where ever it comes from, it may be relevant or has interesting views on the subject.
We are all trying to escape so we can be free, it is the purpose that is more important.

We are all born not knowing and it can be learned.
Okay, you are right. Sorry if I was combative.
And welcome to Dhamma Wheel!
Don't worry about it, they are just words.....they don't really exist.....there is nothing there.

It is words like he/she, blond/bluenette, black/white, either he/she comes from china, the US, europe or anywhere, either he is tall or short, clever or stupid, happy or sad.....they are all the same.....yes, thats right.....they are all human beings.

It is therefore very important for one to SEE clearly.....these words are just a words, it is only a human construct so that we can all communicate to each other.....they are created by the mind and for the mind, don't be bounded by them.....there is meaning beyond the words.....don't let the words to become an obstruction.

Hence there is a saying when the cup is full of water, it cannot take anymore!.....one must empty it first.
This is the same meaning in the film Matrix where Morpheus said to Neo before jumping between buildings "You have to let it all go, Neo. Fear, doubt and disbelief. Free your mind"

It is telling one to empty the mind of pre-conceived ideas......throw them all away!
It is the mind we want to set FREE!....and that is exactly what Buddhism is trying to do.

User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Dream World v Real World!

Post by equilibrium » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:06 pm

It is time for more clues.
Yawares has provided a very interesting topic under the following link:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another one is SN 35.115

Another clue from the film for you: When one is watching the film, one takes the natural position of Neo as "the One".....what this film is doing is to communicate with the viewer, ie. this is you, the person watching the film.....it is communicating to you through a film, through pictures, images so they can be feed through your eyes....and ears by sounds.....so it is directed to you!

What is important here is in the film, it shows that Neo is "plugged in".....now this is a VERY important point to consider.....What is it telling you, what is the meaning of this.....being plugged in?.....why?.....time to do some thinking......think about what is real and what is not real?

Consider all clues to date.....and the original statement........what are your thoughts now?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 62 guests