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What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:44 pm
by Caraka
In one of Scott1989's threads I asked him about whats Mara to him. He responded with:
I don't really see Mara as a female demon who is trying to seduce me
Dawn also answered this question in the same thread, but with:
Mara's body is our internal voice, he disapears when we watch him dirrectly.
Which makes me curious about what others also might answer?

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:55 pm
by m0rl0ck
I suppose if i had to characterize it, it would be as the heedless, wanting mind instead of the tranquil and serene mind that comes with practice. Its really a process tho whose end result is that heedless wanting mind.
Mara, to me, is i guess just a personification of the poisons.

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:01 pm
by Scott1989
Perhaps we could say 'Mara is me' or 'I am Mara'. When there is no 'me', no possessive entity in the head, there is no Mara. In this way you could actually argue that Mara is a demon that possesses us :lol:

What it brings is the story of me: my wants, my cravings, my needs, my memories, my opinions, my judgments, my knowledge.

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:51 pm
by James the Giant
To me, Mara is my negative parts, my sloth, my anger, my greed, my lust, my doubt, my bad habits, etc etc.
I like to talk about Mara as if he's an actual real demonic superbeing who attacks people to distract them from what really matters. But I don't believe that in the least.
However, the suttas are pretty definite that he's an actual being. But I'm okay with not believing everything the suttas say literally.

Even the arahat Moggalana was actually Mara in a previous life!
At that time, Moggallana was Mara, chief of demons, lord of the lower worlds, and his name was Mara Dusi. He had a sister by name of Kali whose son was to become the Mara of our age. Majjhima Nikaya No. 50

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:52 pm
by DAWN
Revolver is a good film abour Mara :spy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cea-hyQevg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:56 pm
by DAWN
And also, the word 'NIGHMARE' is composed of NIGHT and MARA :stirthepot:

I think is a good 'mether to think' about the nature of dreams

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:31 pm
by Caraka
However, the suttas are pretty definite that he's an actual being. But I'm okay with not believing everything the suttas say literally.
Can't one say eg. that there is nothing left in a being than Mara (does not need to be human)?

humans definitely have made a lot of nightmare movies..., or what about the story where the devil tempted Jesus. Did not this happen to the Buddha as well, before he reach enlightenment?

Wonder what Mara would be if it was not something related to ourself or our body..

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:04 pm
by Bhikkhu Pesala
There are previous threads on this, but to repeat what I said earlier:

Five Kinds of Māra
  1. Māra Devaputta, the celestial villain of the sixth devaloka, the “Tempter” and the embodiment of evil.
  2. Kilesas, the ten defilements.
  3. Abhisaṅkhāra, kamma or volitional action.
  4. Khandha, continued existence.
  5. Maccu, death.
Some take the view that it only means the defilements, that Māra devaputta is just a manifestation of one's own fears and other defilements. However, how can one explain then that Māra appeared to the Buddha on several occasions during his life, after he had vanquished all defilements at the foot of the Bodhi tree?

Also, how do we explain the Māratajjaniya Sutta, in which Venerable Moggallāna admonishes Māra and warns him of the consequences of harassing a disciple of the Buddha?

If we have never seen a ghost, or deva, or brahma, or a māra, we will have to believe or disbelieve these accounts. Its not within the range of our direct knowledge, and idle speculation is the work of Māra.

The defilements are visible here and now. Endless volitional activity (abhisankhāra māra) is visible here and now. Death (maccu māra) is all around us in the news every day, though we tend to ignore it.

The five aggregates are visible here and now. As for Māra devaputta, let me know if you see him?

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:11 pm
by whynotme
Thank you sir,

I have this curiosity, why such a powerful deva like Mara is against Buddhism? He must done some great deeds to be born as high level deva and he must have some kinds of divine eye to know about kamma, why Maras have such kind of attitude?

Regards

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:25 pm
by Bhikkhu Pesala
Why are some multi-millionaires so opposed to religion? They must have done some powerful kamma to become multi-millionaires. Why are not all of them strongly inclined to do charitable works for their well-being in future existences?

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:37 pm
by whynotme
Thank you sir, I see it

Even sometimes I knew something as not good for me, but because of temper, love or hate, jealousy, I did against my benefit let alone things I don't know about it.

Regards

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:28 am
by Caraka

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:23 pm
by equilibrium
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Why are some multi-millionaires so opposed to religion? They must have done some powerful kamma to become multi-millionaires. Why are not all of them strongly inclined to do charitable works for their well-being in future existences?
Cause and effect.....Being rich now because of previous life.....equally strong, being poor because of previous life.....better to be in the middle.
Rich does not allow one to see as they are "blinded" by the money.....as they know in this life they do not need it.....nor will they ever question future existence.
Poor does not allow one to see as they are "struggling" with debt and work keeps their time occupied.

One will not "do" if one cannot "see"............The purpose is to escape and to be free!

Mara is the moment when one opens their eyes!

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:28 pm
by Hanzze
"I" as well as "you".

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:32 pm
by Caraka
Greetings Bhikkhu Pesala,

There is also five kinds of Mara in my belief, as you list in the post and explained in the link above (I found the link in one of the earlier posts about Mara in this forum. You was part of that discussion as well).

It is the appearance of Mara that is not so clear. Is this a physical appearance you think, ie. can be touch, seen, talked to like anything else that is worldly, or is this an appearance we cannot see with our physical five senses?

Questions and reflections around reproofing the Buddhas teaching is not idle speculation, for me at least. For me it is the way towards recognizing the sublime Dhamma.
Why are some multi-millionaires so opposed to religion? They must have done some powerful kamma to become multi-millionaires. Why are not all of them strongly inclined to do charitable works for their well-being in future existences?
If you don't know any multi-millionaires or all, is this not idle speculation?

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:31 pm
by whynotme
Caraka wrote: It is the appearance of Mara that is not so clear. Is this a physical appearance you think, ie. can be touch, seen, talked to like anything else that is worldly, or is this an appearance we cannot see with our physical five senses?
Hi,

Your question relates to the invisible world, devas.

One of the monk I knew claimed that he attained jhanas and has the knowledge of that world explained that it is the realm of consciousness which why modern science can't easily measure it. By consciousness, most people will think it is subjective, but I think about something as objective consciousness. I don't know much but I think revolution new views/ methods are needed to understand this realm in modern language.

Also, modern understanding of consciousness is indirectly through physical world, i.e measure physical state of the brain. Consciousness is a key problem in human history, it is so obvious to human but is very hard/ impossible to measure directly in physical world that why most scientists easily accept consciousness is something physical, i.e the current in brain, but in reality, it is not.

Regards

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:39 am
by ground
Mara is consciousness' home, the opposite of homelessness, the lord of limitations.
"Monks, what a man wills, what he plans, what he dwells on forms the basis for the continuation of consciousness.[2] This basis being present, consciousness has a lodgment. Consciousness being lodged there and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and from this renewed existence arise birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamentation, suffering, sorrow and despair. Such is the uprising of this entire mass of suffering.

"Even if a man does not will and plan, yet if he dwells on something this forms a basis for the continuation of consciousness:... rebirth... takes place...

"But if a man neither wills nor plans nor dwells on anything, no basis is formed for the continuation of consciousness. This basis being absent, consciousness has no lodgment. Consciousness not being lodged there and not growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and so birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamentation, suffering, sorrow and despair are destroyed. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:56 am
by Hanzze
A physical home is often an incrediple reflextion of an consciousness home. Mara is not easy seen. Throw away the key and he appears, even before you do, even before you would give it a thought. There are two kinds of Wandering on.

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:05 am
by ground
Maybe yes, maybe no. Does not make a difference. View is view is consciousness' home. :sage:

Re: What is Mara to you?

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:11 am
by bodom
This is an interesting article for further study:

The Buddha's Encounters with Mara the Tempter:
Their Representation in Literature and Art

by
Ananda W.P. Guruge

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el419.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali: