Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

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gavesako
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Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by gavesako » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:01 pm

Dhammakaya leader saw and described the reincarnation of Steve Jobs! Believe it or not... :jawdrop: :thinking:

Detailed analysis in this article:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/87995/tha ... teve-jobs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Original article on Dhammakaya website:
http://www.dmc.tv/pages/en/Where-is-Ste ... art-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ajahn Paisal Visalo on possible Parajika offence of Phra Dhammachayo (in Thai)
อวดอุตริ! พระไพศาลชี้ 'สตีฟ จ็อบส์' ฉบับธรรมกาย เข้าข่ายอาบัติปาราชิก!
http://m.thairath.co.th/content/life/285205" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Wat Phra Dhammakaya in Pathum Thani province on Monday stirred an internet controversy when it released an article on its website referring to the afterlife of Apple co-founder Steve Jobs, claiming the American legend has been reincarnated as a mid-level angel dwelling not far from his Apple office in a parallel world.
According to the temple’s website (http://www.dmc.tv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), the article named “Where is Steve Jobs?” was in answer to questions about Jobs’s afterlife that had been asked by a man identified as Tony Tseung, a senior engineer at Apple's headquarters in Cupertino, California.

It claimed Mr Tseung sent a letter asking Phrathepyanmahamuni (Luang Por Dhammachayo), the abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya, whether he knew where Jobs went after his death and how he was faring.

He said Jobs was a practitioner of Buddhism and at one point wanted to become a Buddhist monk, but failed to do it as work kept him busy.

The website said the answers to Mr Tseung’s questions resulted in knowledge gained from Phrathepyanmahamuni’s long-time practice of meditation.

The abbot claimed Jobs is now “a half Witthayathorn, half Yak (Thai word for ‘giant’), which is a mid-level angel. Witthayathorn is the term representing one of the angel types who love to seek knowledge in various sciences. Another trait of his angelic character was a hot temper, he said.

Before Jobs died, he was worried about many things such as his family and work projects, and his life after death.

Jobs is living in a big heavenly palace, the height of a six-storey building, made of white, silver metal and crystal glass, located not far from where he worked when he was alive. He has 20 servants as a result of his worldly virtue, the abbot said.

The content in the article was from a Phrathepyanmahamuni sermon that had been aired on the temple’s cable television channel Dhamma Media Channel (DMC) last week. It was intended to teach the law of karma to Dhammakaya followers, not meant to defame or insult any parties, the website explained.

The website said the article had been disseminated on many websites and social media channels and the text may have been edited, paraphrased or distorted. As a result, it urged people to use care and read the “correct” original text on its website. It also said the “Where is Steve Jobs?” article was only an individual opinion and whether to believe it was up to the audience.

Wat Phra Dhammakaya has been embroiled in controversy over its donation campaigns and claims of miracles. The temple, however, is believed to have millions of followers around the world, including many powerful Thai politicians.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/308543/null" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Temple danger clear as Jobs talk gets crazy
Sanitsuda Ekachai

Should we just dismiss it as crazy when a Buddhist monk claims he knows about the late Steve Jobs's afterlife and that Jobs's spirit is now blessed with a sacred crystal ball inside his body?

If this out-of-this-world claim came from a nobody, we could just laugh it off as a wacky idea from someone trying to use the name of a famous person to get himself some attention.

But it's definitely no laughing matter when the claim comes from the almighty abbot of the country's richest and most politically connected temple which _ despite criticisms about its grave distortions of Buddhist teachings _ is set to take control of the clergy.

If you missed Phra Dhammachayo's talk in Thai on the afterlife of Jobs and the stories about his previous lives, go to the Dhammakaya Temple's website at http://www.dmc.tv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The abbot's talk is divided into three parts: where Steve Jobs is now after his death, why he was born talented, and why he became a successful businessman in the first place.

The abbot, clad in a saffron garb that is distinctive from mainstream monks, told the audience that despite his good deeds on earth, Jobs's mind was clouded by anxiety and fear before he succumbed to cancer. This is why, he said, Jobs's new form in the afterlife is that of "a middle-class celestial male being in the category of half celestial male, half giant demon" with dark complexion, and complete with hidden fangs which will show when his famous temper takes over.

"Can you follow me?" The abbot asked this question every few minutes as he described in minute detail Jobs's celestial abode _ a sleek, hi-tech six-story building with a floating bed and a 20-strong entourage _ near his old office building.

I admit it was very hard for me follow the abbot although his followers kept on responding to him, exclaiming "oh, wow" and "yes, yes".

The first part of the talk ended with Jobs's bliss and thankfulness after receiving a stream of light and a sparkling crystal sent by a group of Dhammakaya followers into the centre of his body.

Can you follow me?

In the other two parts of his talk, the abbot told of Jobs's previous lifetimes, one in which he was a merchant who donated large amounts to an orderly, serene, well-organised temple (like Dhammakaya?) even when he did not have much money, who became one of the temple's faithful, learned meditation with a monk with special powers (like Phra Dhammachayo?) and attained wealth by always making a strong wish for it after every merit-making (like the Dhammakaya followers are told to?).

Once a target of state suspicion for its rapid growth, Dhammakaya is now enjoying support from both business and political elites as well as urban supporters who are drawn to the temple's hypnotic mixture of grandeur, a sense of modernity, tales of supernatural powers, and the promises for quick nirvana fixes that money can buy.

The clergy, pampered by Dhammakaya wealth and under the spell of nationalism, also support Dhammakaya's overseas expansion, viewing it as part of the propagation of Thai Buddhism.

The temple is also making sure that every new batch of monks is growing on Dhammakaya scholarships to build a firm foundation of support as their members continue to climb up the ecclesiastical ladder.

According to Dhammakaya defector Mano Laohavanich, formerly Mettananando Bhikkhu, the threat doesn't stem only from the abuse of Buddhist teachings on giving for commercial gain. It also affects the very core of Buddhism by turning it into a theological religion.

In his article "Esoteric Teachings of Wat Phra Dhammakaya," he discusses the belief among the temple's inner core members that the abbot is the reincarnation of the "Creator" who is leading an army of the Sons of Light to fight the Sons of Darkness in a cosmic battle to save humankind.

It's just getting weirder and weirder, isn't it?

I just can't imagine what the future holds for Thai Buddhism when the clergy is under Dhammakaya's full control.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... gets-crazy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:spy:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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manas
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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by manas » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:27 pm

Greetings Bhante,

I don't know much about Thai Buddhism, but afaik there are still plenty of really good monks, and some quite outstanding ones, to keep Thai Buddhism from totally imploding into this sort of nonsense.

For example, Ajahn Kukrit:

imho so long as he is still around, the true Dhamma (or in any case something closer to it) is still practiced and taught in Thailand. Plus there must still be others who are similarly respectable. and practicing in line with the Pali Tipitaka.

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:34 pm

Greetings,
gavesako wrote:Dhammakaya leader saw and described the reincarnation of Steve Jobs! Believe it or not... :jawdrop: :thinking:
I'll stick with "not".

I do hope such shenigans on the part of Dhammakaya do not taint perception of legitimate orders such as the Dhammayuttika and Maha Nikayas.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:16 am

Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote: I do hope such shenigans on the part of Dhammakaya do not taint perception of legitimate orders such as the Dhammayuttika and Maha Nikayas.
As I understand it Dhammakaya monks are ordained in one or other of those Nikayas. As far as I can understand, Dhammakaya is analogous to a group of monasteries, such as the "Ajahn Chah" group, etc. I've heard it said, though that they are trying to create the impression that they are a separate Nikaya, and they are certainly large, wealthy, and growing (they have two monasteries in New Zealand and support Buddhist studies at Otago University, for example).

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by plwk » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:26 am

What seems to be the fuss? It's just one man's opinion... in a sea of opinions...

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by GraemeR » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:35 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
gavesako wrote:Dhammakaya leader saw and described the reincarnation of Steve Jobs! Believe it or not... :jawdrop: :thinking:
I'll stick with "not".

I do hope such shenigans on the part of Dhammakaya do not taint perception of legitimate orders such as the Dhammayuttika and Maha Nikayas.

Metta,
Retro. :)
From my personal experience of Dhamma Kaya, I'm with you on this.

Does it really matter to me where or what someone else is anyway?

Graham

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by GraemeR » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:38 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote: I do hope such shenigans on the part of Dhammakaya do not taint perception of legitimate orders such as the Dhammayuttika and Maha Nikayas.
As I understand it Dhammakaya monks are ordained in one or other of those Nikayas. As far as I can understand, Dhammakaya is analogous to a group of monasteries, such as the "Ajahn Chah" group, etc. I've heard it said, though that they are trying to create the impression that they are a separate Nikaya, and they are certainly large, wealthy, and growing (they have two monasteries in New Zealand and support Buddhist studies at Otago University, for example).

:anjali:
Mike
We have previously discussed Wat Dahmma Kaya on this forum, if you search you can find the discussion.

Graham

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

Hi Graeme,

Yes, I know that, which is why I commented on Retro's comment, which gave the inaccurate impression that Dhammakaya was a separate Nikaya.

See, for example:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3459" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=339" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5930" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by gavesako » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:14 am

If you know the history of the Dhammakaya controversy in Thailand, which goes back at least 20 years, this is just the latest event which stirred up a lot of public debate in Thailand this week. The previous case involved some peculiar Dhammakaya teachings, such as claiming that Nibbana is the "true self" (atta), which the eminent scholar Phra Payutto has criticized in his book "Karani Thammakai". A new article has just been published, and it is definitely worth reading if you want to know the whole background:


Esoteric Teaching of Wat Phra Dhammakāya
Mano Mettanando Laohavanich
Pridi Banomyong International College,
Thammasat University

Thailand’s controversial Wat Phra Dhammakāya has grown exponentially. In just three decades, it has come to have millions of followers in and outside of Thailand and over forty branches overseas. The esoteric teaching of meditation taught by the leaders of the community has inspired thousands of young men and women from various universities to sacrifice their lives to serve their Master, something that has never been seen before in Thailand or elsewhere in the Theravāda world. What is the nature of this esoteric teaching? Why is it so appealing to these young minds? These questions are discussed and analyzed by the author, who was one of Wat Phra Dhammakāya’s founding members.

http://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethi ... hammakaya/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:reading:

There is also a whole book discussing this topic:

http://books.google.com/books?id=yE94sB ... &q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rachelle M. Scott. Nirvana for Sale? Buddhism, Wealth, and the Dhammakāya Temple in Contemporary Thailand. Albany: SUNY Press, 2009. Illustrations. xiii + 242 pp. $70.00 (cloth), ISBN 978-1-4384-2783-6; $29.95 (paper), ISBN 978-1-4384-2784-3.

Reviewed by Justin T. McDaniel (University of Pennsylvania)
Published on H-Buddhism (August, 2010)
Commissioned by Thomas Borchert
http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=29580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by perkele » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:07 pm

gavesako wrote: http://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... hammakaya/
Thanks, Bhante, for posting this link.
This is really quite horrifying to read. The abbot of Wat Dhammakaya as the almighty creator of the worlds and of Nibbana, Nibbana as a creation, a kind of heavenly abode, the war between the dark and the bright Dhammakayas or Maras, etc... this strange esoteric teaching is something one could just smile and shake one's head about. But... Adolf Hitler as a role model? The use of indoctrinated children as "teachers" who have attained "Dhammakaya", etc. etc., taught to play their roles in this sick play with the support of their proud parents. That is just perverse.
The most dreadful is the great worldly power and influence of this organization and the apparently huge following. I just can't get my head around it. How come they have so much success and support?
And this calculated rise to power over the ecclesiastical council, the strategic rise to political power and immunity, this silencing of opponent voices, the sudden death of the attorney general in 2005 and the dropping of all fraud charges, the apparent passivity of any political authority in face of all of this, even the king of Thailand conferring honorary titles to the abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya... that reminds me quite a bit of Nazi Germany. Strange, unexplainable things happening. Overall it seems just surreal.

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Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by GraemeR » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:35 am

perkele wrote:
gavesako wrote: http://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... hammakaya/
Thanks, Bhante, for posting this link.
This is really quite horrifying to read. The abbot of Wat Dhammakaya as the almighty creator of the worlds and of Nibbana, <snip>
Overall it seems just surreal.
Unfortunately Thai people take 'spirits' and ghosts very seriously.

When you walk down the road every small shop and stall seems to leave food offering on the footpath. It can be enough to feed a small army!

I remember picking up my daughter aged 4 from her nursery. The children looked at me in abject terror and ran away screaming. A little surprised, I listened and they were screaming 'Yak, yak!' They thought I actually was a giant. They can't see many Westerners in the south!

Graham

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by gavesako » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:40 am

manas wrote:Greetings Bhante,
I don't know much about Thai Buddhism, but afaik there are still plenty of really good monks, and some quite outstanding ones, to keep Thai Buddhism from totally imploding into this sort of nonsense.
:anjali:
Yes indeed, some prominent progressive monks in Thailand have spoken up now against the teachings of Phra Dhammachayo, the leader of the Dhammakaya sect. Among them are Phra Paisal Visalo and Phra Payom Kalyano, well-known environmentalist monks who promote "small is beautiful" rather than "big, Bigger, BIGGEST" that impresses some people in Thailand and also in the West. The opposition against Dhammakaya is quite big across Thailand, fortunately most people will simply not believe the fairy tales that the abbot tells in his TV programs, they find it ridiculous and make fun out of him.

See for example these groups:
http://www.facebook.com/AntiDhammakaya" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.facebook.com/groups/161656550544585/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, because of the politics in the Thai Sangha and the connection with some powerful politicians and businessmen, the leader of Dhammakaya has managed to keep his show going for a long time now. Several years ago, during the scandal with property and money at Wat Dhammakaya, the Sangharaja Somdet Nyanasamvara Thera has apparently signed a document accusing Phra Dhammachayo of a Parajika (disrobing) offense:

พระสังฆราช ลงพระลิขิต ปรับอาบัติปาราชิก พระธัมมชโย เจ้าอาวาสวัดธรรมกายแล้ว ใช่ไหมครับ เห็นรูปดังนี้
http://www.pantip.com/cafe/religious/to ... 50052.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now another accusation is made against Phra Dhammachayo: if he simply told his audience that the story about Steve Jobs is made up in order to illustrate the workings of Kamma and rebirth, it would be no problem, but he pretends to actually see all this through his super-normal powers. This amounts to claiming "uttarimanussa-dhamma" and, if proven false and that he is knowingly deceiving his audience, it would also be a Parajika (disrobing) offense according to the Vinaya.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:07 am

The foolish are always in the majority. The wise will seek out wise teachers and pay no attention to what the foolish majority do.
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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by santa100 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:50 pm

It's important to maintain transparency for any Buddhist organization. Especially if a monk leader committed wrong-doings, the public has the right to know. All the cover-ups would only leads to more tragedies (look at those rampant sex-abuse scandals ongoing at the other big religious institute all because of years of cover-up by those in the highest ranking)..

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Re: Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

Post by gavesako » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:27 pm

Mr. Jobs has been reincarnated as a celestial warrior-philosopher, the Dhammakaya group said in a special television broadcast, and he’s living in a mystical glass palace hovering above his old office at Apple’s Cupertino, California headquarters. ...

Sporting a shaved head and over-sized glasses, Phra Chaibul, a soft-spoken trained economist, advises students to closely analyze Mr. Jobs’s life so they can better understand their own role in this world, and beyond. Perfection of the kind symbolized by Apple’s phones and other gadgets, he intones, can only be attained by many cycles of trial and error.

“Once Steve Jobs began work on something, he was determined to get it done to the best of his ability,” Phra Chaibul said in one sermon. “No problems or obstacles could come between him and his work. On the contrary, problems and obstacles only spurred him on to succeed.”

That grittiness helped Apple become the world’s most valuable company, even before the launch of its next iPhone model, expected in September.

The spiritual rewards also appear to be worth the effort, at least according to Phra Chaibul. He says that Mr. Jobs now enjoys sleeping on a floating hover-bed, and when he thinks of a piece of music he would like to hear, it automatically plays. If he is hungry, an aide quickly brings him a tasty treat.

“Everything is high-tech, beautiful, and simple, exactly the way he likes it, and he is filled with great excitement and amazement,” Phra Chaibul says. In fact, the technology surrounding the reincarnated Mr. Jobs works so seamlessly that he has no reason to “bare his canine teeth” or otherwise exercise the hot temper for which he was known on earth.

What’s more, Mr. Jobs was reborn in a younger, more handsome form. Phra Chaibul says he now appears to be around 35 to 40 years old, with a full head of hair. Artist renderings accompanying Phra Chaibul’s lectures show a rejuvenated Mr. Jobs living in a photo-shopped, air-brushed utopia where he hangs out with other sprites and revels in the achievements of friends and colleagues he left behind on earth.
http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2012/0 ... ilosopher/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:alien: :shock:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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