Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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johnny
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Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Post by johnny » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:08 am

I was tired when I wrote this and looking at it now I realize it makes no sense..
Last edited by johnny on Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.
There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

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Kim OHara
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Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:17 am

Hi, Johnny,
I don't know much about Chan but I do think you might like this book if you can find it:

Bones of the Master by George Crane (1996)
George Crane, American poet, meets Tsung Tsai, a Chinese Ch’an (Zen) monk who escaped from the disastrous Great Leap Forward in 1959-60. The two of them travel to Inner Mongolia to re-establish the monastery. It's a spiritual journey and a cultural journey. Tsung Tsai is amazing.

:namaste:
Kim

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Way~Farer
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Re: Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Post by Way~Farer » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:29 am

The most important thing is to find what is true for you. This doesn't mean something idiosyncratic or subjective, but based on a real sense of 'what problem is Buddhism addressing, in my life?' Which means, what is hurting? What in your life is actually dukkha? Why are you reading, what are you seeking? If you can get clear on that, a lot of things will fall into place. Truth is inside your experience, not anywhere in the outside world. The teachings can only be a mirror or a magnifying glass. Find out what you're seeing through it. Otherwise, confusion will continue. It comes in many flavours. :smile:

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Alobha
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Re: Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Post by Alobha » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:41 am

johnny wrote: But, because it's never really been systematized until fairly recently, it's very hard too find that thread within the MASSIVE sea of Chan/Zen texts and teachings. Many of which are in direct opposition too each other, and sometimes there's direct opposition inside of one schools teachings. Because each master was considered independent, and because they specifically tried too refrain from relying on written texts and words, they virtually re-wrote everything each time one came into popularity and started a new school of thought and practice. "Punching people in the face and screaming helps them reach enlightenment? Okay, that's going to be our thing then." says school A. Then school B has a totally different take on things "Enlightenment comes only from meditation and mindfulness." since the master who is in charge of school B understands things differently. you can't argue because there's no agreed upon rules or texts!
There's no agreed upon rules or texts? What about the rules the Buddha set? What about the teachings the Buddha gave?

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kirk5a
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Re: Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Post by kirk5a » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:34 pm

johnny wrote:But, because it's never really been systematized until fairly recently, it's very hard too find that thread within the MASSIVE sea of Chan/Zen texts and teachings.
Here is an interesting passage from the Buddha which may help explain what you are noticing.
"The truth is one,
there is no second
about which a person who knows it
would argue with one who knows.
Contemplatives promote
their various personal truths,
that's why they don't say
one thing & the same."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

santa100
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Re: Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Post by santa100 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:43 pm

"Both formerly and now, monks, I declare only dukkha and the cessation of dukkha."

~~ the Buddha - MN 22 ~~ http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Methods and forms will be different among different schools, so pick one that works best for you in addressing the number one issue that the Buddha had mentioned..

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Durt_Dawg
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Re: Chan/Zen, freaking awesome and also very confusing!

Post by Durt_Dawg » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 am

There are 84000 Dharma Gates for realising the Way. Ch'an is a very direct method that tells you to "Understand your mind, thus realising your intrinsic nature."

It's pretty mean!!!
Lets b fwendssss!!!!

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