The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Post Reply
plwk
Posts: 1463
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:14 am

The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by plwk »

phpBB [video]


Ordination as one answer to managing overpopulation? What thinkest thou?

perkele
Posts: 964
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:37 pm

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by perkele »

Seems legit. :)

But I think the Dalai Lama was (half-)joking here.

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 4089
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

The logic is severely flawed — I am sure it was just a joke.

More nuns might help, but more monks would not make the slightest difference — men cannot give birth.

Even if 10% of all women became nuns, the remaining women could easily have 10% more babies, so you would have to find other methods. Natural selection has worked well enough for the last two million years, so just don't worry about it — its out of your control.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 1538
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: United States

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Virgo »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:The logic is severely flawed — I am sure it was just a joke.

More nuns might help, but more monks would not make the slightest difference — men cannot give birth.

Even if 10% of all women became nuns, the remaining women could easily have 10% more babies, so you would have to find other methods. Natural selection has worked well enough for the last two million years, so just don't worry about it — its out of your control.
The planet is generally too crowded and overpopulated. This is not a bad thing just because of a lack of resources and so forth, in my opinion Bhante, but really because more people equals more defilements influencing the fabric of society. This may seem like a negative view, but just look at society lately. The moral culture has changed from even 10 y ears ago, never mind 50, or a hundred, or more. At this point, society is out of whack and unwholesomeness flourishes. It will be near impossible soon to even raise a proper family. So more monks and nuns yes, but not for the reason of controlling numbers, but for being free of samsara.

People nowadays don't understand how men and women should live.

Just my humble thoughts.

Kevin
The Hunger Site

________________

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Ben »

Hi Kevin,
Virgo wrote: People nowadays don't understand how men and women should live.
And, how should they live?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 1538
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: United States

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Virgo »

Ben wrote:Hi Kevin,
Virgo wrote: People nowadays don't understand how men and women should live.
And, how should they live?
There is only one way to live rightly, Ben.

Kevin
The Hunger Site

________________

Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Sanghamitta »

Gosh all the worlds problems solved at a stroke.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Ben »

Virgo wrote:
Ben wrote:Hi Kevin,
Virgo wrote: People nowadays don't understand how men and women should live.
And, how should they live?
There is only one way to live rightly, Ben.

Kevin
Well, I would like to know how you think men and women should live given that you said:
People nowadays don't understand how men and women should live

I would like to know what you mean by that.
Thanks for your considered attention.

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 1538
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: United States

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Virgo »

Ben wrote: Well, I would like to know how you think men and women should live given that you said:
People nowadays don't understand how men and women should live

I would like to know what you mean by that.
Thanks for your considered attention.

Ben
Hi Ben, well it's kind of hard to explain I guess. I come from a good family but was raised mostly in New York City. I saw how bad getting away from morality and ethics really gets. I have seen things you wouldn't believe. Other folks in that community and elsewhere live better, no doubt, but there has been a general decline. This decline will lead to our downfall as a civilization as a whole.

Kevin
The Hunger Site

________________

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by cooran »

So ..... Virgo what has that to do with overpopulation?

This is the reason:

''Already, millions of women in developing countries are unable to determine the size of their families because they lack access to contraception. Worldwide, the largest group of young people in history is entering their reproductive years. The decisions and policies we make today, and the options available to these young people, will ultimately determine whether our numbers climb to anywhere from 8 billion to 11 billion by 2050.......''
http://populationaction.org/policy-brie ... he-planet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The solution is to empower and educate the women.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 22904
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:so just don't worry about it — its out of your control.
:goodpost:

Top sense restraint... :thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)

Buckwheat
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Buckwheat »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Natural selection has worked well enough for the last two million years, so just don't worry about it — its out of your control.
Yes, but we are in a population boom due to an increase in Earth's population capacity due to our technological feats. A population boom has one of two results: a population crash, or a leveling off at or just below the Earth's capacity (or a blend of the two). Leveling off would still entail suffering, but a population crash would be absolutely miserable for many, many people. So the compassionate thing to do is:
cooran wrote:...empower and educate the women.
Which goes a lot further than just access to contraception. It includes reading, science, art, access to capitol to start a business, fair laws so that they can not be killed for "honor". After that's done,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:...don't worry about it — its out of your control.
:anjali:
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

Buckwheat
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Buckwheat »

Virgo wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:The logic is severely flawed — I am sure it was just a joke.

More nuns might help, but more monks would not make the slightest difference — men cannot give birth.

Even if 10% of all women became nuns, the remaining women could easily have 10% more babies, so you would have to find other methods. Natural selection has worked well enough for the last two million years, so just don't worry about it — its out of your control.
The planet is generally too crowded and overpopulated. This is not a bad thing just because of a lack of resources and so forth, in my opinion Bhante, but really because more people equals more defilements influencing the fabric of society. This may seem like a negative view, but just look at society lately. The moral culture has changed from even 10 y ears ago, never mind 50, or a hundred, or more. At this point, society is out of whack and unwholesomeness flourishes. It will be near impossible soon to even raise a proper family. So more monks and nuns yes, but not for the reason of controlling numbers, but for being free of samsara.

People nowadays don't understand how men and women should live.

Just my humble thoughts.

Kevin
Yes, change happens. Slaves are freed, women get to vote, democracy triumphs over dictators (at least in the west)... society is really in a downhill slide. And also, crime rates peaked in the early 90's and have been generally falling in the US. I believe New York is in a similar trend, but don't have evidence for that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 1538
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: United States

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Virgo »

cooran wrote: This is the reason:

''Already, millions of women in developing countries are unable to determine the size of their families because they lack access to contraception. Worldwide, the largest group of young people in history is entering their reproductive years. The decisions and policies we make today, and the options available to these young people, will ultimately determine whether our numbers climb to anywhere from 8 billion to 11 billion by 2050.......''
http://populationaction.org/policy-brie ... he-planet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chris
Hi Cooran,

Contraception has led to people not respecting sex and its power. These days, people think that sex isn't something special between a man and a woman, to be had when a couple is ready to raise a children. They don't see it as something dangerous, that could lead to disease-- they just slap a condom on instead. This also leads to people cheating and having sex with partners they shouldn't, since they can do it more often without having a baby with them or contracting a disease. It leads to too much illicit behavior which is unbecoming of the human race. Even if one can find a good wife now, she is probably not pure.

Kevin
The Hunger Site

________________

User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 1538
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: United States

Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation

Post by Virgo »

Buckwheat wrote: Yes, change happens. Slaves are freed, women get to vote, democracy triumphs over dictators (at least in the west)... society is really in a downhill slide. And also, crime rates peaked in the early 90's and have been generally falling in the US. I believe New York is in a similar trend, but don't have evidence for that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hello Buckwheat.

I don't believe any man should be a slave. I don't think religious people could honestly feel any other way and I think it was non religious types that promoted it. I also believe that women should be allowed to vote. These changes are very good. By the way, when talking about a decline in morals, I wasn't referring simply to the crime rate. I was talking about how people treat each other and relate to each other, how much people value relationships that stay together to raise children, how people live the good life with VALUES and so on. These days all the good stuff is getting drowned out with the pursuit of pleasure. It's ME, ME, ME.


Kevin
The Hunger Site

________________

Post Reply