Hi all,
I seem to think that 'sending metta' is nothing more than using one's thoughts, that's all.
Metta
Re: Metta
Everything we think, everything we say and everything we do is no more than using our thoughts.
kind regards,
Ben
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Metta
Yeah. But the suttas seem to attribute special powers to the sending of Metta. See http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... 5.html#ch8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Ben wrote:Everything we think, everything we say and everything we do is no more than using our thoughts.
kind regards,
Ben
Since I figure sending Metta is only a thought process, I don't see why it's so special.
Re: Metta
Very good and interesting topic indeed.
I've been thinking about Brahma-viharas (that include metta) for a long time. It seems to me they are very similar to jhana, but I don't understand how to practise them correctly. I doubt that modern interpertations of this practice are correct (I don't mean they are harmful or useless, I just say that, in my opinion, the original brahmavihara practice was something different). Alas, it seems there are no details about this practice in the suttas except some standard definitions
There is an idea, that brahmaviharas (just like kasinas) are to be practised after you gain at least 1st jhana.
I've been thinking about Brahma-viharas (that include metta) for a long time. It seems to me they are very similar to jhana, but I don't understand how to practise them correctly. I doubt that modern interpertations of this practice are correct (I don't mean they are harmful or useless, I just say that, in my opinion, the original brahmavihara practice was something different). Alas, it seems there are no details about this practice in the suttas except some standard definitions
There is an idea, that brahmaviharas (just like kasinas) are to be practised after you gain at least 1st jhana.
Re: Metta
There are passages in canon that, as I see it, indicate that they do.
For example, this sutta shows there is some interplay between jhanas and even arupajhanas and kasinas
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And this one shows the interplay between jhanas and brahmaviharas:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For example, this sutta shows there is some interplay between jhanas and even arupajhanas and kasinas
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And this one shows the interplay between jhanas and brahmaviharas:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Metta
The practices as taught by those who are experienced in it , make no reference to Jnana states at all.
Whatever interpretations are made of translations of suttas.
I was first taught Kasina by a venerable and ancient monk more than thirty years ago. who had learned from his teacher, and who was at pains to distance such practice from supposed Jnanic states.
As is often the case there is the banter and chitchat of online discussion about translations of translations...and then there is the actual reality of practices as actually practiced by the living tradition.
Whatever interpretations are made of translations of suttas.
I was first taught Kasina by a venerable and ancient monk more than thirty years ago. who had learned from his teacher, and who was at pains to distance such practice from supposed Jnanic states.
As is often the case there is the banter and chitchat of online discussion about translations of translations...and then there is the actual reality of practices as actually practiced by the living tradition.
Re: Metta
Buddha said to compare all "teachings from teachers (no matter how acknowledged they are)" with suttas and vinaya.
That is my approach to follow this his advice, since "living tradition" can be wrong.
That is my approach to follow this his advice, since "living tradition" can be wrong.
Re: Metta
This sutta says, that practice of:
- metta leads to 1st rupa-jhana state after death
- compassion leads to 2nd rupa-jhana state after death
- appreciation leads to 3rd rupa-jhana state after death
- equanimity leads to 4th rupa-jhana state after death
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And this sutta is similar, but there instead of 4 brahmaviharas we find 4 jhanas (leading to the same result after death):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- metta leads to 1st rupa-jhana state after death
- compassion leads to 2nd rupa-jhana state after death
- appreciation leads to 3rd rupa-jhana state after death
- equanimity leads to 4th rupa-jhana state after death
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And this sutta is similar, but there instead of 4 brahmaviharas we find 4 jhanas (leading to the same result after death):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Zom on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Metta
I have not the slightest interest in speculation about what might or might not happen after death...Zom wrote:This sutta says, that practice of:
- metta leads to 1st rupa-jhana state after death
- compassion leads to 2nd rupa-jhana state after death
- appreciation leads to 3rd rupa-jhana state after death
- equanimity leads to 4th rupa-jhana state after death
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And this sutta is similar, but there instead of 4 brahmaviharas we find 4 jhanas (leading to the same result after death):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I suspect that your view and my view of Dhamma are diametrically opposed...And mine is not postulated on translations of suttas whose connection to the Buddha is tenuous at best.
It is instead posited on the experiential teachings of those who show the fruits in THIS life.
All good wishes to you.
Re: Metta
Hello headless,headless wrote:Hi all,
I seem to think that 'sending metta' is nothing more than using one's thoughts, that's all.
This thread may be of interest:
The power of metta (Classical Theravada version)
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1643" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: Metta
A fair point and i would have been more accurate if I said that the teaching of metta by experienced teachers is frequently not in association with Jnanic states, rather than implying that metta is never taught in association with those states...
I have been on several Metta retreats with among others Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Munindo and no reference at all was made to the Jnanas.
I actually think that most talk about Jnanic states by most people is fantasy anyway....but thats a whole nother subject...
I have been on several Metta retreats with among others Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Munindo and no reference at all was made to the Jnanas.
I actually think that most talk about Jnanic states by most people is fantasy anyway....but thats a whole nother subject...
Re: Metta
Would you happen to be Sanghamitta using PeterB's account or something? She often mistyped "jhana" as "jnana", which isn't a problem, but I couldn't help but notice, and I don't recall Peter making that little mistake.