Metta

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
headless
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Metta

Post by headless »

Hi all,

I seem to think that 'sending metta' is nothing more than using one's thoughts, that's all.
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Ben
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Re: Metta

Post by Ben »

Everything we think, everything we say and everything we do is no more than using our thoughts.
kind regards,

Ben
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headless
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Re: Metta

Post by headless »

Ben wrote:Everything we think, everything we say and everything we do is no more than using our thoughts.
kind regards,

Ben
Yeah. But the suttas seem to attribute special powers to the sending of Metta. See http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... 5.html#ch8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since I figure sending Metta is only a thought process, I don't see why it's so special.
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Zom
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Re: Metta

Post by Zom »

Very good and interesting topic indeed.
I've been thinking about Brahma-viharas (that include metta) for a long time. It seems to me they are very similar to jhana, but I don't understand how to practise them correctly. I doubt that modern interpertations of this practice are correct (I don't mean they are harmful or useless, I just say that, in my opinion, the original brahmavihara practice was something different). Alas, it seems there are no details about this practice in the suttas except some standard definitions :thinking:

There is an idea, that brahmaviharas (just like kasinas) are to be practised after you gain at least 1st jhana.
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Re: Metta

Post by PeterB »

Neither Kasina practice nor the Brahma Viharas have any relevance to Jnana states at all.
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Zom
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Re: Metta

Post by Zom »

There are passages in canon that, as I see it, indicate that they do.
For example, this sutta shows there is some interplay between jhanas and even arupajhanas and kasinas
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this one shows the interplay between jhanas and brahmaviharas:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PeterB
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Re: Metta

Post by PeterB »

The practices as taught by those who are experienced in it , make no reference to Jnana states at all.
Whatever interpretations are made of translations of suttas.
I was first taught Kasina by a venerable and ancient monk more than thirty years ago. who had learned from his teacher, and who was at pains to distance such practice from supposed Jnanic states.
As is often the case there is the banter and chitchat of online discussion about translations of translations...and then there is the actual reality of practices as actually practiced by the living tradition.
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Zom
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Re: Metta

Post by Zom »

Buddha said to compare all "teachings from teachers (no matter how acknowledged they are)" with suttas and vinaya.
That is my approach to follow this his advice, since "living tradition" can be wrong.
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Zom
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Re: Metta

Post by Zom »

This sutta says, that practice of:

- metta leads to 1st rupa-jhana state after death
- compassion leads to 2nd rupa-jhana state after death
- appreciation leads to 3rd rupa-jhana state after death
- equanimity leads to 4th rupa-jhana state after death

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this sutta is similar, but there instead of 4 brahmaviharas we find 4 jhanas (leading to the same result after death):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Zom on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PeterB
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Re: Metta

Post by PeterB »

Zom wrote:Buddha said to compare all "teachings from teachers (no matter how acknowledged they are)" with suttas and vinaya.
That is my approach to follow this his advice, since "living tradition" can be wrong.
Good luck with that..
PeterB
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Re: Metta

Post by PeterB »

Zom wrote:This sutta says, that practice of:

- metta leads to 1st rupa-jhana state after death
- compassion leads to 2nd rupa-jhana state after death
- appreciation leads to 3rd rupa-jhana state after death
- equanimity leads to 4th rupa-jhana state after death

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this sutta is similar, but there instead of 4 brahmaviharas we find 4 jhanas (leading to the same result after death):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have not the slightest interest in speculation about what might or might not happen after death...
I suspect that your view and my view of Dhamma are diametrically opposed...And mine is not postulated on translations of suttas whose connection to the Buddha is tenuous at best.
It is instead posited on the experiential teachings of those who show the fruits in THIS life.

All good wishes to you.

:anjali:
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cooran
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Re: Metta

Post by cooran »

headless wrote:Hi all,

I seem to think that 'sending metta' is nothing more than using one's thoughts, that's all.
Hello headless,

This thread may be of interest:
The power of metta (Classical Theravada version)
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1643" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
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Otsom
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Re: Metta

Post by Otsom »

.
Last edited by Otsom on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
PeterB
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Re: Metta

Post by PeterB »

A fair point and i would have been more accurate if I said that the teaching of metta by experienced teachers is frequently not in association with Jnanic states, rather than implying that metta is never taught in association with those states...
I have been on several Metta retreats with among others Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Munindo and no reference at all was made to the Jnanas.

I actually think that most talk about Jnanic states by most people is fantasy anyway....but thats a whole nother subject... :o
Kenshou
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Re: Metta

Post by Kenshou »

Would you happen to be Sanghamitta using PeterB's account or something? She often mistyped "jhana" as "jnana", which isn't a problem, but I couldn't help but notice, and I don't recall Peter making that little mistake.
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