Is paññā, prajñā or prāṇa ?

[ToVincent]

प्राण prāṇa [act. prāṇ]
Life (RV.)

प्राण् prāṇ [pra-an]
- to breathe (RV. AV. ŚBr. Up.) ;
- to live, animate AV.
Desid. [ prāṇiṇiṣati ]: to desire to live (breathe).

√ अन् an
- to breathe, to live.

प्र pra
Intensely

_______

In which case,

Nibbana means "The knowledge beyond [the bliss (ka) of] breath ".

निर्वाण nirvāṇa

निस् nis (var. nir, niś, niṣ, niḥ)
Beyond.

वा √ vā
to blow (RV. )

ण ṇa
knowledge

______

Cetovimutti is the liberation of citta through samadhi (see intro & notes https://justpaste.it/5x298) - and the liberation from citta is paññāvimutti.
And Nibbāna is beyond.

.
.

[JamesTheGiant]

You can't determine the meaning of a word by seeing its parts.
The meaning of a word is related to the parts, but often it has profoundly different meaning, especially with something as complex as the concept of Nibbana.
Basically the meaning of Nibbana cannot be understood by anyone until they've experienced it by becoming a Stream Enterer.

[Spiny Norman]

Nibbana means "The knowledge beyond [the bliss (ka) of] breath ".

I suspect this another example of pre-Buddhist ideas being reformulated.

[Volo]

It's not even driving the meaning from the parts. These parts have nothing to do with the word in question. It is like to derive the word "thinking" from "thin + king".

[ToVincent]

As far as Nibbāna is concerned:

निर्वाण nirvāṇa [agt. nirvā]
निर्वा nirvā [nis-vā]
निस् nis (var. nir, niś, niṣ, niḥ)
√ वा vā

nirvāṇo 'vāte (= nirvāṇaḥ a-vāte)
Aṣṭādhyāyī 8, 2, 50.0

Pretty instructive:
https://archive.org/download/VasuAstadh ... s58_201803
Please read before answering (chaper 2, #50)

I know that I am lousy with grammar, but Pāṇini seems good.

[JamesTheGiant]

https://archive.org/download/VasuAstadh ... s58_201803
Please read before answering (chaper 2, #50)

That's an excellent way to make sure nobody disagrees with you. Make them download a 61 megabyte PDF from an archive, and read before answering.

[ToVincent]

That's an excellent way to make sure nobody disagrees with you. Make them download a 61 megabyte PDF from an archive, and read before answering.

13 MB download (chapter 8 only) :
https://archive.org/download/ashtadhyay ... hyayi8.pdf

Summary (screenshot) is here:
https://i.imgur.com/XaxkJCq_d.jpg?maxwi ... ity=medium

And text in IAST is here:
http://kjc-sv013.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/ ... eID=440894
Click on the yellow sentence for details.

[atipattoh]

Cetovimutti is the liberation of citta through samadhi (see intro & notes https://justpaste.it/5x298) - and the liberation from citta is paññāvimutti.
And Nibbāna is beyond.

Is paññā, thinking - > learning - > mental development (sammasamadhi) , a kind of defilement that you need to get liberated from, is that what paññāvimutti means?

[ToVincent]

Let me please, reformulate my question.

Usually, prajñā is considered and translated as "wisdom". Which does not make much sense with the texts. Or at least, does it belong to the usual vagueness, that is proper to the establishment's conceptual jargon.

The question is: "is prajñā prāṇa?" - Is prajñā the ultimate knowledge of prāṇa?
Is paññā the prajñā of prāṇa ?

This does make more sense with such concepts like Ana-pana-sati; or generally with Indian philosophy at large.
.
.

[Volo]

The question is: "is prajñā prāṇa?" - Is prajñā the ultimate knowledge of prāṇa?

No.

Is paññā the prajñā of prāṇa ?

No.

This does make more sense with such concepts like Ana-pana-sati; or generally with Indian philosophy at large.

prajñā (paññā) is from the root jñā (to know), prāṇa (pāṇa) is from the root an (to breath). They are not related, they just have the same prefix pra.

[ToVincent]

prajñā (paññā) is from the root jñā (to know), prāṇa (pāṇa) is from the root an (to breath). They are not related, they just have the same prefix pra.

That I know.
This is why I reformulated my question.

The reformulated question is therefore: "Is the knowledge that prajñā is all about, is about prāṇa ?

In other words

My original question (Is paññā, prajñā or prāṇa?) was meant to be understood as: is paññā "wisdom (?)" - or is paññā the ([ultimate] knowledge of) breath (आन āna / अपान apāna [apa-āna] = Āna-apāna = Ānāpāna; as in Ānāpānasati) ?

- The question is: "is prajñā prāṇa?" - Is prajñā the ultimate knowledge of prāṇa?
- No.

- Is paññā the prajñā of prāṇa ?
- No.

If your categorical answers, (No/No,) are as good as your answer on nibbāna:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33219&p=494797&sid ... fa#p494699
To which I answered here (and further down):
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33219&p=494797&sid ... fa#p494725
Allow me to continue musing about all this; and particularly on the meaning of "wisdom (?).
If you don't mind.

[Virgo]

Hi ToVincent,

Let me please, reformulate my question.

Usually, prajñā is considered and translated as "wisdom". Which does not make much sense with the texts. Or at least, does it belong to the usual vagueness, that is proper to the establishment's conceptual jargon.

The question is: "is prajñā prāṇa?" - Is prajñā the ultimate knowledge of prāṇa?
Is paññā the prajñā of prāṇa ?

This does make more sense with such concepts like Ana-pana-sati; or generally with Indian philosophy at large.
.
.

We have ancient explanations of paññā preserved in the texts such as this one from the Atthasalini:

"Understanding has the penetration of intrinsic nature, unfaltering penetration as its characteristic, like the penetration of an arrow shot by a skilled archer; illumination of the object as its function, as it were a lamp; non perplexity as its proximate cause, as it were a good guide in the forest."

The breath is a subtle rupa which paññā can use as an object of insight or as an object of tranquility (like the other 39 subjects).

There is no other relation beyond that which I am aware of.

Best,

Kevin

[ToVincent]

Hi ToVincent,


We have ancient explanations of paññā preserved in the texts such as this one from the Atthasalini:

"Understanding has the penetration of intrinsic nature, unfaltering penetration as its characteristic, like the penetration of an arrow shot by a skilled archer; illumination of the object as its function, as it were a lamp; non perplexity as its proximate cause, as it were a good guide in the forest."

The breath is a subtle rupa which paññā can use as an object of insight or as an object of tranquility (like the other 39 subjects).

Then wouldn't assāsapassāsa, which is prāṇa, be the best nimitta, the best efficient cause, to relate to the material cause that is ānāpāna.
The cause that is also the effect of the ultimate starter of paṭiccasamuppāda that is Ignorance.

Assāsa [Sk. āśvāsa - ā-√ śvas ]
- to breath in.
- To cause to take breath Suśr.

Passāsa [fr. pa+śvas]
- to breathe out.

Why then bother with the other 39 objects, when you can train (ānāpānasati) on the yoniso of them all; on the most intrinsic of them all.

[Volo]

If your categorical answers, (No/No,) are as good as your answer on nibbāna:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33219&p=494797&sid ... fa#p494699

I explained my categorical answers. The words are not related, they are comming from different roots. I cannot prohibit you anything, but such etymologies don't help to understand the meaning of the word, and only confusing. But anyway I leave you to do what you want.

[ToVincent]

If your categorical answers, (No/No,) are as good as your answer on nibbāna:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33219&p=494797&sid ... fa#p494699

I explained my categorical answers. The words are not related, they are comming from different roots. I cannot prohibit you anything, but such etymologies don't help to understand the meaning of the word, and only confusing. But anyway I leave you to do what you want.

https://i.imgur.com/XaxkJCq_d.jpg?maxwi ... ity=medium
(see above post)

Then I suppose that in the Pāṇini vs. Volovsky case, Volovsky has won.