On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:44 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:48 pm
auto wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:28 am
Saengnapha?

You said you finally got what he spoke, do you have natural state? Do you have acquired natural state season pass?
No one acquires the natural state. It is what is already there when you stop using the thought structure to try to 'become' someone/something. All UG is talking about is the futility of using a tool (mind/thought structure) that has created psychological suffering in order to end it. It cannot end itself and has no desire to. It is only going to produce more suffering, nothing more. It is endless illusion, trickery. If you understand this, you stop trying to 'become' because you see this illusion clearly. This is dispassion or disinterest and you let go of these illusory ideas about yourself and any attainments that you have been told that you need. The natural state is not something that exists. It is a figure of speech, just like nibbana. Your own thinking cannot capture anything except what it already has learned and that is conditioned. If you come to this point, we don't need to discuss anything more. You will see it clearly and you will not engage in these useless, fruitless dialogues.
Can you describe what is happening when you are at that state right now? like real time live feed what is going on? do you notice sensations?

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:09 pm

In some of the videos i have watched, he mentions nervous system. As i understand what he means then is that the "calamity" is we take the sensation from nervous system and make it into something.


So he seem to be existentialist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism
The notion of the Absurd contains the idea that there is no meaning in the world beyond what meaning we give it. This meaninglessness also encompasses the amorality or "unfairness" of the world. This contrasts with the notion that "bad things don't happen to good people"; to the world, metaphorically speaking, there is no such thing as a good person or a bad person; what happens happens, and it may just as well happen to a "good" person as to a "bad" person.[29]
Or opposite of it, hmm actually his natural state could be "authentic existence"
Many noted existentialist writers consider the theme of authentic existence important. Authentic existence involves the idea that one has to "create oneself" and then live in accordance with this self. What is meant by authenticity is that in acting, one should act as oneself, not as "one's acts" or as "one's genes" or any other essence requires.
Or not, angst i haven't heard what he has to say about this situation
Facticity is a concept defined by Sartre in Being and Nothingness as the in-itself, which delineates for humans the modalities of being and not being. This can be more easily understood when considering facticity in relation to the temporal dimension of our past: one's past is what one is, in the sense that it co-constitutes oneself.
Another aspect of facticity is that it entails angst, both in the sense that freedom "produces" angst when limited by facticity, and in the sense that the lack of the possibility of having facticity to "step in" for one to take responsibility for something one has done, also produces angst.
that above would beat JD, since JD is after freedom and not aware of that freedom can produce angst.
Last edited by auto on Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Saengnapha
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:28 pm

auto wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:09 pm
In some of the videos i have watched, he mentions nervous system. As i understand what he means then is that the "calamity" is we take the sensation from nervous system and make it into something.


So he seem to be existentialist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism
The notion of the Absurd contains the idea that there is no meaning in the world beyond what meaning we give it. This meaninglessness also encompasses the amorality or "unfairness" of the world. This contrasts with the notion that "bad things don't happen to good people"; to the world, metaphorically speaking, there is no such thing as a good person or a bad person; what happens happens, and it may just as well happen to a "good" person as to a "bad" person.[29]
Or opposite of it, hmm actually his natural state could be "authentic existence"
Many noted existentialist writers consider the theme of authentic existence important. Authentic existence involves the idea that one has to "create oneself" and then live in accordance with this self. What is meant by authenticity is that in acting, one should act as oneself, not as "one's acts" or as "one's genes" or any other essence requires.
You are just using other people's information to try to understand what UG said and where he fits into your world. You seem to be talking to yourself. You ask a question and you answer it. Why bother with all this? If you cannot understand what he talked about, just walk away. I have nothing more to tell you. I don't know why you even post here.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:39 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:28 pm

You are just using other people's information to try to understand what UG said and where he fits into your world. You seem to be talking to yourself. You ask a question and you answer it. Why bother with all this? If you cannot understand what he talked about, just walk away. I have nothing more to tell you. I don't know why you even post here.
People have their own zone where they repeat one and the same things with specific tone. That doesn't go away, it can be made more defile free, purify.
That zone or tone, you can recognize people when they wear different names and appearances. i purify myself here, if i die then i go to my star system(if i have one, i hope i have my own planet or at least moon) :P or earth is my home, don't know.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:43 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:48 pm
No one acquires the natural state. It is what is already there when you stop using the thought structure to try to 'become' someone/something. All UG is talking about is the futility of using a tool (mind/thought structure) that has created psychological suffering in order to end it. It cannot end itself and has no desire to. It is only going to produce more suffering, nothing more. It is endless illusion, trickery. If you understand this, you stop trying to 'become' because you see this illusion clearly. This is dispassion or disinterest and you let go of these illusory ideas about yourself and any attainments that you have been told that you need. The natural state is not something that exists. It is a figure of speech, just like nibbana. Your own thinking cannot capture anything except what it already has learned and that is conditioned. If you come to this point, we don't need to discuss anything more. You will see it clearly and you will not engage in these useless, fruitless dialogues.

If we will meet with a disagreeable aspect then problems arise. I don't like that pose its for weaklings.
Other case is when you are separated from something you like.

That is first noble truth. Suffering.
Second truth is origin of suffering. It is craving what arises from dispassion or wanting.
Third truth is getting over it. And its done by following path.

https://translate.google.com/#en/et/craving
longing, yearning, desire, want, wish, hankering, hunger, thirst, appetite, greed, lust,..
long for, yearn for, desire, want, wish for, hunger for, thirst for, sigh for, pine for, hanker after,..
Craving will show you the path. Gotta get it out to see, feel.
Basing on 1st noble truth you can make up lots of practices keeping in mind the idea is to get the yearning out.

Saengnapha
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:00 am

auto wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:43 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:48 pm
No one acquires the natural state. It is what is already there when you stop using the thought structure to try to 'become' someone/something. All UG is talking about is the futility of using a tool (mind/thought structure) that has created psychological suffering in order to end it. It cannot end itself and has no desire to. It is only going to produce more suffering, nothing more. It is endless illusion, trickery. If you understand this, you stop trying to 'become' because you see this illusion clearly. This is dispassion or disinterest and you let go of these illusory ideas about yourself and any attainments that you have been told that you need. The natural state is not something that exists. It is a figure of speech, just like nibbana. Your own thinking cannot capture anything except what it already has learned and that is conditioned. If you come to this point, we don't need to discuss anything more. You will see it clearly and you will not engage in these useless, fruitless dialogues.

If we will meet with a disagreeable aspect then problems arise. I don't like that pose its for weaklings.
Other case is when you are separated from something you like.

That is first noble truth. Suffering.
Second truth is origin of suffering. It is craving what arises from dispassion or wanting.
Third truth is getting over it. And its done by following path.

https://translate.google.com/#en/et/craving
longing, yearning, desire, want, wish, hankering, hunger, thirst, appetite, greed, lust,..
long for, yearn for, desire, want, wish for, hunger for, thirst for, sigh for, pine for, hanker after,..
Craving will show you the path. Gotta get it out to see, feel.
Basing on 1st noble truth you can make up lots of practices keeping in mind the idea is to get the yearning out.
Craving will show you more craving. No amount of thinking will change this. First noble truth is a statement, there is suffering. You recognize it. Second is another statement, why you suffer. Very simple. Third noble truth is suffering can end. Fourth is a way out of it.

For myself, I don't think the 4th truth is something the Buddha put together but synthesized by those who came after him. I have no way of proving this. When I came across the two Krishnamurti's, each emphasized the impossibility of a path leading to Truth and the end of suffering. Yet here were two men who seemed to not suffer who said a similar thing. After years of work, introspection, meditation, etc., I have come to the impossibility of there being a way out of suffering using the intellect to try to 'become' free, or 'understand' the words of others. I cannot, so I stop as none of the work I have done has changed me in any significant way. The only thing I notice is that I don't chase after the same things that I used to or believe in the same fairy tales that have been passed down through the centuries. Is it because I meditated so much and entered various states of mind? Not at all. That's like taking drugs, altering your state. Has craving stopped in me? Not at all. I am not trying to stop it. If you could stop craving wouldn't it have stopped by now? How much time would you need to stop it? I don't see time as a factor in stopping craving. I don't see the intellect able to stop craving because it is craving. So what happens when you see this, that there is nothing you can do about craving and ending it? In the words of the 2 K's, YOU STOP. You stop trying to find a solution because there is none. You have been tricking yourself into thinking that there is something to be done, to achieve, to attain. It is an illusion that mankind has been under forever. Illusion is what is surviving and what is being lived. We buy the story, the problem, and the solution to it. That's what the priests are selling. This doesn't mean that I don't respect what the Buddha discovered. I am not buying all this stuff handed down through the centuries that are supposed to lead mankind out of suffering. It hasn't worked. Is there any doubt about this? Look at the state of mankind. Following religions and philosophies are a colossal failure. I wish it were not so.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:27 pm

Craving will show you more craving.
true, getting away with big craving, small fries will surface.
No amount of thinking will change this.
true, you actually need maintain discipline and renew desire to become virtues
First noble truth is a statement, there is suffering. You recognize it. Second is another statement, why you suffer. Very simple. Third noble truth is suffering can end. Fourth is a way out of it.
idk
For myself, I don't think the 4th truth is something the Buddha put together but synthesized by those who came after him. I have no way of proving this.
idk
When I came across the two Krishnamurti's, each emphasized the impossibility of a path leading to Truth and the end of suffering.
if they did it they did it, idk
Yet here were two men who seemed to not suffer who said a similar thing.
i don't believe it, also according to 1st noble truth, old age is suffering. So they can think they are free of suffering but khmhkm look at the body.
After years of work, introspection, meditation, etc., I have come to the impossibility of there being a way out of suffering using the intellect to try to 'become' free, or 'understand' the words of others.

true, you need discipline, practice
I cannot, so I stop as none of the work I have done has changed me in any significant way.

try more at least get a decent breakthrough
The only thing I notice is that I don't chase after the same things that I used to or believe in the same fairy tales that have been passed down through the centuries.
nice insight, there is more, keep on going
Is it because I meditated so much and entered various states of mind? Not at all. That's like taking drugs, altering your state. Has craving stopped in me? Not at all. I am not trying to stop it. If you could stop craving wouldn't it have stopped by now? How much time would you need to stop it? I don't see time as a factor in stopping craving. I don't see the intellect able to stop craving because it is craving.

MN suttas and other suttas too can help to understand this 'paradox'
So what happens when you see this, that there is nothing you can do about craving and ending it? In the words of the 2 K's, YOU STOP.
True, its my mind what ends the craving
You stop trying to find a solution because there is none. You have been tricking yourself into thinking that there is something to be done, to achieve, to attain.

craving tells me there is solution, so i won't ruin it by going for easy sandwich, i keep craving up so i could observe it, i use discipline to keep it up.
It is an illusion that mankind has been under forever. Illusion is what is surviving and what is being lived. We buy the story, the problem, and the solution to it. That's what the priests are selling. This doesn't mean that I don't respect what the Buddha discovered. I am not buying all this stuff handed down through the centuries that are supposed to lead mankind out of suffering. It hasn't worked. Is there any doubt about this? Look at the state of mankind. Following religions and philosophies are a colossal failure. I wish it were not so.
So you think like in a "fight club" let the chips fall.(i don't understand that movie, scrap that sentence)


*by the way its borderline idle talk and its what i don't do much

Saengnapha
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:19 pm

auto wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:27 pm
Uruguay or Portugal? I'll take Uruguay.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:37 am

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
A1. "Now, householders, of those contemplatives & brahmans who hold this doctrine, hold this view — 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly and practicing rightly, proclaim this world and the next after having directly known and realized it for themselves' — it can be expected that, shunning these three skillful activities — good bodily conduct, good verbal conduct, good mental conduct — they will adopt & practice these three unskillful activities: bad bodily conduct, bad verbal conduct, bad mental conduct. Why is that? Because those venerable contemplatives & brahmans do not see, in unskillful activities, the drawbacks, the degradation, and the defilement; nor in skillful activities the rewards of renunciation, resembling cleansing.
A2. "Because there actually is the next world, the view of one who thinks, 'There is no next world' is his wrong view. Because there actually is the next world, when he is resolved that 'There is no next world,' that is his wrong resolve. Because there actually is the next world, when he speaks the statement, 'There is no next world,' that is his wrong speech. Because there actually is the next world, when he says that 'There is no next world,' he makes himself an opponent to those arahants who know the next world. Because there actually is the next world, when he persuades another that 'There is no next world,' that is persuasion in what is not true Dhamma. And in that persuasion in what is not true Dhamma, he exalts himself and disparages others. Whatever good habituation he previously had is abandoned, while bad habituation is manifested. And this wrong view, wrong resolve, wrong speech, opposition to the arahants, persuasion in what is not true Dhamma, exaltation of self, & disparagement of others: These many evil, unskillful activities come into play, in dependence on wrong view.
A3. "With regard to this, an observant person considers thus: 'If there is no next world, then — with the breakup of the body, after death — this venerable person has made himself safe. But if there is the next world, then this venerable person — on the breakup of the body, after death — will reappear in a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell. Even if we didn't speak of the next world, and there weren't the true statement of those venerable contemplatives & brahmans, this venerable person is still criticized in the here-&-now by the observant as a person of bad habits & wrong view: [2] one who holds to a doctrine of non-existence.' If there really is a next world, then this venerable person has made a bad throw twice: in that he is criticized by the observant here-&-now, and in that — with the breakup of the body, after death — he will reappear in a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell. Thus this safe-bet teaching, when poorly grasped & poorly adopted by him, covers (only) one side, and leaves behind the possibility of the skillful.
You are just betting on that there is no attainments. If there is someone who has attainments you are disparaging that person. Cultivating this way bad conduct and unskillful qualities.(read these long quotes yourself)

Saengnapha
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am

All of us have the tendency to state our experience as mine. There has been and is, an activity of identification that tells us what we experience is ours, mine. We do this with our thoughts, feelings, and even objects. When we are able to learn the name of objects, we are also learning that they relate to me. Experiences become my experiences. Thoughts become my thoughts. So where does all of this come from, this identification, this me and mine and you and yours?

One of the first explanations that I heard from U.G. regarding this process was something he called World Mind.

U.G.:
The world mind
constitutes the totality of thoughts, feelings, experiences, and hopes of humankind.
‘The world mind is that which has created you and me, for the main purpose of
maintaining its status quo, its continuity. That world mind is self-perpetuating, and its
only interest is to maintain its continuity, which it can do only through the creation of
what we call individual minds — your mind and my mind. So without the help of that
knowledge, you have no way of experiencing yourself as an entity. This so-called entity
— the I, the self, the soul, the psyche — is created by that. And so we are caught up in
this vicious circle, namely, of knowledge giving you the experience, and the experience
in turn strengthening and fortifying that knowledge… This knowledge is put into us
during the course of our life. When you play with a child, you tell him, “Show me your
hand, show me your nose, show me your teeth, your face… what is your name?” this is
how we build up the identity of the individual’s relationship with his body and with the
world around.’

Whatever you experience has already been experienced by someone else. Your telling yourself, 'Ah! I am in a blissful state,' means that someone else before you has experienced that and has passed it on to you. Whatever may be the nature of the medium through which you experience, it is a second-hand, third-hand, and last-hand experience. It is not yours. There is no such thing as your own experience. Such experiences, however extraordinary, aren't worth anything.
We want to know what truth is. We want to know what enlightenment is...
You already know it. Don't tell me that you don't. There is no such thing as truth at all.

But it is difficult for you to throw all this stuff out of your system. You can also deny it and brush it aside, but this, 'Maybe there is something to it,' lasts for a long time. When once you stumble into a situation that you can call courage, you can throw the entire past out of yourself.

I don't know how this has happened. What has happened is something which cannot but be called an act of courage because everything, not only this or that particular teacher you had been involved with but everything that every man, every person, thought, felt and experienced before you, is completely flushed out of your system. What you are left with is the simple thing—the body with extraordinary intelligence of its own.


In all my years knowing him, he never waivered from the above, never gave you an exercise, a method, or any path to follow.

auto
Posts: 472
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:57 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am
All of us have the tendency to state our experience as mine. There has been and is, an activity of identification that tells us what we experience is ours, mine. We do this with our thoughts, feelings, and even objects. When we are able to learn the name of objects, we are also learning that they relate to me. Experiences become my experiences. Thoughts become my thoughts. So where does all of this come from, this identification, this me and mine and you and yours?

One of the first explanations that I heard from U.G. regarding this process was something he called World Mind.

U.G.:
The world mind
constitutes the totality of thoughts, feelings, experiences, and hopes of humankind.
‘The world mind is that which has created you and me, for the main purpose of
maintaining its status quo, its continuity. That world mind is self-perpetuating, and its
only interest is to maintain its continuity, which it can do only through the creation of
what we call individual minds — your mind and my mind. So without the help of that
knowledge, you have no way of experiencing yourself as an entity. This so-called entity
— the I, the self, the soul, the psyche — is created by that. And so we are caught up in
this vicious circle, namely, of knowledge giving you the experience, and the experience
in turn strengthening and fortifying that knowledge… This knowledge is put into us
during the course of our life. When you play with a child, you tell him, “Show me your
hand, show me your nose, show me your teeth, your face… what is your name?” this is
how we build up the identity of the individual’s relationship with his body and with the
world around.’

Whatever you experience has already been experienced by someone else. Your telling yourself, 'Ah! I am in a blissful state,' means that someone else before you has experienced that and has passed it on to you. Whatever may be the nature of the medium through which you experience, it is a second-hand, third-hand, and last-hand experience. It is not yours. There is no such thing as your own experience. Such experiences, however extraordinary, aren't worth anything.
We want to know what truth is. We want to know what enlightenment is...
You already know it. Don't tell me that you don't. There is no such thing as truth at all.

But it is difficult for you to throw all this stuff out of your system. You can also deny it and brush it aside, but this, 'Maybe there is something to it,' lasts for a long time. When once you stumble into a situation that you can call courage, you can throw the entire past out of yourself.

I don't know how this has happened. What has happened is something which cannot but be called an act of courage because everything, not only this or that particular teacher you had been involved with but everything that every man, every person, thought, felt and experienced before you, is completely flushed out of your system. What you are left with is the simple thing—the body with extraordinary intelligence of its own.


In all my years knowing him, he never waivered from the above, never gave you an exercise, a method, or any path to follow.
jhanas are for to eradicate feelings regrads to ignorance(4th jhana), resistance obsession(3rd jhana), passion-obsession(2nd jhana)
Its not a practice, its a way to do it.

So i think courage what he encountered, he defeated resistance obsession and get into equanimity, 4th jhana.

But i think he didn't eradicate bitterness, resentfulness, unworked sensual energies under the belly areas. For that breath is used, breath will stop and the feeling you feel is there is the type of sensations what are waiting to be relased in under belly.


*just tried, with the stopping of the breath i can get into lower sensual organ(i think it's lymphatic system).

*I feel substances and their release in body, and know what self referential thought will cause in body and sometimes fluid returns coming down to heart from up..

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:36 pm

auto wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:57 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am
All of us have the tendency to state our experience as mine. There has been and is, an activity of identification that tells us what we experience is ours, mine. We do this with our thoughts, feelings, and even objects. When we are able to learn the name of objects, we are also learning that they relate to me. Experiences become my experiences. Thoughts become my thoughts. So where does all of this come from, this identification, this me and mine and you and yours?

One of the first explanations that I heard from U.G. regarding this process was something he called World Mind.

U.G.:
The world mind
constitutes the totality of thoughts, feelings, experiences, and hopes of humankind.
‘The world mind is that which has created you and me, for the main purpose of
maintaining its status quo, its continuity. That world mind is self-perpetuating, and its
only interest is to maintain its continuity, which it can do only through the creation of
what we call individual minds — your mind and my mind. So without the help of that
knowledge, you have no way of experiencing yourself as an entity. This so-called entity
— the I, the self, the soul, the psyche — is created by that. And so we are caught up in
this vicious circle, namely, of knowledge giving you the experience, and the experience
in turn strengthening and fortifying that knowledge… This knowledge is put into us
during the course of our life. When you play with a child, you tell him, “Show me your
hand, show me your nose, show me your teeth, your face… what is your name?” this is
how we build up the identity of the individual’s relationship with his body and with the
world around.’

Whatever you experience has already been experienced by someone else. Your telling yourself, 'Ah! I am in a blissful state,' means that someone else before you has experienced that and has passed it on to you. Whatever may be the nature of the medium through which you experience, it is a second-hand, third-hand, and last-hand experience. It is not yours. There is no such thing as your own experience. Such experiences, however extraordinary, aren't worth anything.
We want to know what truth is. We want to know what enlightenment is...
You already know it. Don't tell me that you don't. There is no such thing as truth at all.

But it is difficult for you to throw all this stuff out of your system. You can also deny it and brush it aside, but this, 'Maybe there is something to it,' lasts for a long time. When once you stumble into a situation that you can call courage, you can throw the entire past out of yourself.

I don't know how this has happened. What has happened is something which cannot but be called an act of courage because everything, not only this or that particular teacher you had been involved with but everything that every man, every person, thought, felt and experienced before you, is completely flushed out of your system. What you are left with is the simple thing—the body with extraordinary intelligence of its own.


In all my years knowing him, he never waivered from the above, never gave you an exercise, a method, or any path to follow.
jhanas are for to eradicate feelings regrads to ignorance(4th jhana), resistance obsession(3rd jhana), passion-obsession(2nd jhana)
Its not a practice, its a way to do it.

So i think courage what he encountered, he defeated resistance obsession and get into equanimity, 4th jhana.

But i think he didn't eradicate bitterness, resentfulness, unworked sensual energies under the belly areas. For that breath is used, breath will stop and the feeling you feel is there is the type of sensations what are waiting to be relased in under belly.


*just tried, with the stopping of the breath i can get into lower sensual organ(i think it's lymphatic system).

*I feel substances and their release in body, and know what self referential thought will cause in body and sometimes fluid returns coming down to heart from up..
This has nothing to do with jhanas. This also has nothing to do with you giving opinions regarding U.G. as you had never known or met him. If you had some real questions about him and not your dismissive comments, maybe there could be some discussion. But as it stands, I have no clue what you are on about or why you even bother to post what you do.

auto
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:36 pm
This has nothing to do with jhanas. This also has nothing to do with you giving opinions regarding U.G. as you had never known or met him. If you had some real questions about him and not your dismissive comments, maybe there could be some discussion. But as it stands, I have no clue what you are on about or why you even bother to post what you do.
I think your own discernment falls short. UG didn't tell to drop practices.

in a video

He tells that psychological problems are not mental they are physical. That is the point what he is different from JK.
He tells falling is love is a chemical thing in a body so he tells its better to eat chocolate to take care of that problem.

So i don't think i am more on topic than you are.


*also i wonder what do you expect from a internet people, its not your village anymore.

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:56 pm

auto wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:32 pm

I think your own discernment falls short. UG didn't tell to drop practices.
Perhaps your reading falls short. I said nothing about him telling people to drop practices. He never gave any practice.

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by binocular » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 am
There is no such thing as truth at all.
That then is a self-defeating statement.
U.G.:
The world mind
constitutes the totality of thoughts, feelings, experiences, and hopes of humankind.
‘The world mind is that which has created you and me, for the main purpose of
maintaining its status quo, its continuity. That world mind is self-perpetuating, and its
only interest is to maintain its continuity, which it can do only through the creation of
what we call individual minds — your mind and my mind. So without the help of that
knowledge, you have no way of experiencing yourself as an entity. This so-called entity
— the I, the self, the soul, the psyche — is created by that. And so we are caught up in
this vicious circle, namely, of knowledge giving you the experience, and the experience
in turn strengthening and fortifying that knowledge… This knowledge is put into us
during the course of our life. When you play with a child, you tell him, “Show me your
hand, show me your nose, show me your teeth, your face… what is your name?” this is
how we build up the identity of the individual’s relationship with his body and with the
world around.’

Whatever you experience has already been experienced by someone else. Your telling yourself, 'Ah! I am in a blissful state,' means that someone else before you has experienced that and has passed it on to you. Whatever may be the nature of the medium through which you experience, it is a second-hand, third-hand, and last-hand experience. It is not yours. There is no such thing as your own experience. Such experiences, however extraordinary, aren't worth anything.
This is not necessarily true, for there are alternative explanations, and the claims are untestable/unfalsifiable or it would be unethical to test them.

In the course of history, there have been several experiments where children were deprived to a lesser or greater extent, with the intention to find out what the original language is or to find out "how people really are". Those experiments never worked out; the deprived children died or became mentally or physically retarded.

What those experiments indicate is that humans (and other beings) need some measure of care from others in order to become functional beings. But they do not prove that a person's sense of self or a person's identity is entirely and exclusively due to being conceived of as a person or as someone with an identity by other people.

How can you possibly prove that you are who you think you are because of other people??
What you are left with is the simple thing—the body with extraordinary intelligence of its own.
And that, somehow, remarkably, isn't an idea we got from other people?
In all my years knowing him, he never waivered from the above, never gave you an exercise, a method, or any path to follow.
Oh, but he did, by implication.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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