Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
jmccoy
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by jmccoy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:38 pm

Well for whatever it's worth, when I first started practicing anapana at my first Goenka retreat (after years of studying Vedanta and Yoga) it seemed obvious to me that the practice was identical to Patanjali's "samyama" using breath and nose/nostrils as the object(s) of dharana.

I think the basic idea is that dharana is concentration or focused attention, dhyana is unbroken dharana sustained for some extended period of time, and samadhi is unbroken dhyana sustained for an even longer period of time. As such the samadhi of samyama may be comparable to Buddhist jhana.

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DNS
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by DNS » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:02 pm

See also this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=23038

where I posted:

This is just for fun and not meant to impose any value, positive or negative or any derogatory notions.

Pure Land Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer, married clergy)
Chinese Ch'an / general Mahayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Roman Catholic Christianity (incense, salvation, statues, icons, celibate monastics)
Nichiren Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer)
Zen Buddhism ---> most similar to Taoism
Vajrayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Hinduism (deities, tantras, gurus)
Theravada Buddhism ---> most similar to Jainism (sramana path, alms round monks and nuns and numerous other similarities)
Secular Buddhism ---> most similar to atheism

SarathW
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by SarathW » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:28 pm

This is just for fun and not meant to impose any value, positive or negative or any derogatory notions.
So there is no real Buddhism left?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Circle5
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Circle5 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:32 pm

Zom wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:49 am
I am confused. Can anyone weigh in .. how does panna come before practice? We practice to gain panna not the other way around
If we take suttas, there are 2 levels of pannya, initial and final. No "in-between", really. Final one is that of arahantship, transcendental wisdom. Initial one is that one leading to stream-entry (you should have it from the very start, or there's not really much you can do to develop it fast enough - the way here is "asking questions", as a kammical way to increase it [MN 135]). If your initial wisdom is weak, you won't even attain stream-entry.
:goodpost:
Pure Land Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer, married clergy)
Chinese Ch'an / general Mahayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Roman Catholic Christianity (incense, salvation, statues, icons, celibate monastics)
Nichiren Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer)
Zen Buddhism ---> most similar to Taoism
Vajrayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Hinduism (deities, tantras, gurus)
Theravada Buddhism ---> most similar to Jainism (sramana path, alms round monks and nuns and numerous other similarities)
Secular Buddhism ---> most similar to atheism
You forgot Theravada Buddhism ---> most similar with orthodox christianity. (blessing of cars, rigid monks, etc.) :tongue:

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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by DNS » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:34 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:28 pm
This is just for fun and not meant to impose any value, positive or negative or any derogatory notions.
So there is no real Buddhism left?
No, that is not what I was conveying. It is just a list of what they are most comparable to of the non-Buddhist paths, no value, positive or negative applied.

jmccoy
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by jmccoy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:07 am

The 5 precepts and the 5 yamas are more or less identical except for the fifth.

Some people are more covetous or possessive than they are indulgent in intoxicants; some people are more indulgent in intoxicants than they are covetous or possessive. Perhaps for the former folks, Yoga (Ashta-Anga) is the more appropriate refuge (to curtail possessiveness), and for the latter folks, Dhamma is the more appropriate refuge (to curtail indulgence in intoxication).

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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:52 pm

DNS wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:02 pm
See also this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=23038

where I posted:

This is just for fun and not meant to impose any value, positive or negative or any derogatory notions.

Pure Land Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer, married clergy)
Chinese Ch'an / general Mahayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Roman Catholic Christianity (incense, salvation, statues, icons, celibate monastics)
Nichiren Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer)
Zen Buddhism ---> most similar to Taoism
Vajrayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Hinduism (deities, tantras, gurus)
Theravada Buddhism ---> most similar to Jainism (sramana path, alms round monks and nuns and numerous other similarities)
Secular Buddhism ---> most similar to atheism
Following your link lead me to quite the necropost!

general Mahayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Roman Catholic Christianity (incense, salvation, statues, icons, celibate monastics)

I suppose one tends to forget about the incense, salvation, statues, paintings, and celibacy in Theravāda?
:spy: :stirthepot:

I would say Theravāda is most similar to what I would call "classical asceticism" at its best. At its worst it is most similar to Catholicism, inasmuch as Thai State-Sangha = Vatican City essentially, with all the corruption and bad money dealings that implies. That is at its worst. At their best, I think all ascetic traditions tend toward uniformity.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

Saengnapha
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:44 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:52 pm
DNS wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:02 pm
See also this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=23038

where I posted:

This is just for fun and not meant to impose any value, positive or negative or any derogatory notions.

Pure Land Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer, married clergy)
Chinese Ch'an / general Mahayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Roman Catholic Christianity (incense, salvation, statues, icons, celibate monastics)
Nichiren Buddhism ---> most similar to general protestant Christianity (salvation, prayer)
Zen Buddhism ---> most similar to Taoism
Vajrayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Hinduism (deities, tantras, gurus)
Theravada Buddhism ---> most similar to Jainism (sramana path, alms round monks and nuns and numerous other similarities)
Secular Buddhism ---> most similar to atheism
Following your link lead me to quite the necropost!

general Mahayana Buddhism ---> most similar to Roman Catholic Christianity (incense, salvation, statues, icons, celibate monastics)

I suppose one tends to forget about the incense, salvation, statues, paintings, and celibacy in Theravāda?
:spy: :stirthepot:

I would say Theravāda is most similar to what I would call "classical asceticism" at its best. At its worst it is most similar to Catholicism, inasmuch as Thai State-Sangha = Vatican City essentially, with all the corruption and bad money dealings that implies. That is at its worst. At their best, I think all ascetic traditions tend toward uniformity.
Well said. Try quoting that in a Thai newspaper! You can imagine the reactions.

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No_Mind
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:40 am

polarbear101 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:43 am
Yamas and the 5 precepts:
I. Yamas (Universal Morality)

1. Ahimsa – Compassion for all living things
The word ahimsa literally mean not to injure or show cruelty to any creature or any person in any way whatsoever. Ahimsa is, however, more than just lack of violence as adapted in yoga. It means kindness, friendliness, and thoughtful consideration of other people and things. It also has to do with our duties and responsibilities too. Ahimsa implies that in every situation we should adopt a considerate attitude and do no harm.

2. Satya – Commitment to Truthfulness
Satya means "to speak the truth," yet it is not always desirable to speak the truth on all occasions, for it could harm someone unnecessarily. We have to consider what we say, how we say it, and in what way it could affect others. If speaking the truth has negative consequences for another, then it is better to say nothing. Satya should never come into conflict with our efforts to behave with ahimsa. This precept is based on the understanding that honest communication and action form the bedrock of any healthy relationship, community, or government, and that deliberate deception, exaggerations, and mistruths harm others. ii

3. Asteya - Non-stealing
Steya means "to steal"; asteya is the opposite-to take nothing that does not belong to us. This also means that if we are in a situation where someone entrusts something to us or confides in us, we do not take advantage of him or her. Non-stealing includes not only taking what belongs to another without permission, but also using something for a different purpose to that intended, or beyond the time permitted by its owner.iii The practice of asteya implies not taking anything that has not been freely given. This includes fostering a consciousness of how we ask for others’ time for inconsiderate behavior demanding another’s attention when not freely given is, in effect, stealing.

4. Brahmacharya - Sense control
Brahmacharya is used mostly in the sense of abstinence, particularly in relationship to sexual activity. Brahmacharya suggests that we should form relationships that foster our understanding of the highest truths. Brahmacharya does not necessarily imply celibacy. Rather, it means responsible behavior with respect to our goal of moving toward the truth. Practicing brahmacharya means that we use our sexual energy to regenerate our connection to our spiritual self. It also means that we don’t use this energy in any way that might harm others.iv

5. Aparigraha - Neutralizing the desire to acquire and hoard wealth
Aparigraha means to take only what is necessary, and not to take advantage of a situation or act greedy. We should only take what we have earned; if we take more, we are exploiting someone else. The yogi feels that the collection or hoarding of things implies a lack of faith in God and in himself to provide for his future.v Aparigraha also implies letting go of our attachments to things and an understanding that impermanence and change are the only constants.
"Now, there are these five gifts, five great gifts — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. Which five?

"There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones, abandoning the taking of life, abstains from taking life. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the first gift, the first great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the fourth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning taking what is not given (stealing), the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking what is not given. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the second gift, the second great gift... and this is the fifth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning illicit sex, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from illicit sex. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the third gift, the third great gift... and this is the sixth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning lying, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from lying. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fourth gift, the fourth great gift... and this is the seventh reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fifth gift, the fifth great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the eighth reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness. - Abhisanda Sutta
Aparigraha is more of a monastic thing in buddhism, giving up all one's possessions from lay life.


Sauca
1. Sauca - Purity
The first niyama is sauca, meaning purity and cleanliness. Sauca has both an inner and an outer aspect. Outer cleanliness simply means keeping ourselves clean. Inner cleanliness has as much to do with the healthy, free functioning of our bodily organs as with the clarity of our mind. Practicing asanas or pranayama are essential means for attending to this inner sauca. Asanas tones the entire body and removes toxins while pranayama cleanses our lungs, oxygenates our blood and purifies our nerves. "But more important than the physical cleansing of the body is the cleansing of the mind of its disturbing emotions like hatred, passion, anger, lust, greed, delusion and pride." v
(2) “Again, a bhikkhu is seldom ill or afflicted, possessing an even digestion that is neither too cool nor too hot but moderate and suitable for striving. This is the second favorable occasion for striving. - https://suttacentral.net/en/an5.54
Contentment
2. Santosa - Contentment
Another niyama is santosa, modesty and the feeling of being content with what we have. To be at peace within and content with one's lifestyle finding contentment even while experiencing life’s difficulties for life becomes a process of growth through all kinds of circumstances. We should accept that there is a purpose for everything - yoga calls it karma – and we cultivate contentment 'to accept what happens'. It means being happy with what we have rather than being unhappy about what we don't have.
“Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train yourselves thus: ‘We will be content with any kind of robe, and we will speak in praise of contentment with any kind of robe, and we will not engage in a wrong search, in what is improper, for the sake of a robe. If we do not get a robe we will not be agitated, and if we get one we will use it without being tied to it, uninfatuated with it, not blindly absorbed in it, seeing the danger in it, understanding the escape.

“‘We will be content with any kind of almsfood … with any kind of lodging … with any kind of medicinal requisites … and if we get them we will use them without being tied to them, uninfatuated with them, not blindly absorbed in them, seeing the danger in them, understanding the escape.’ Thus should you train yourselves.

“Bhikkhus, I will exhort you by the example of Kassapa or one who is similar to Kassapa. Being exhorted, you should practise accordingly.” - https://suttacentral.net/en/sn16.1

“What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by enduring? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, bears cold and heat, hunger and thirst, and contact with gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things; he endures ill-spoken, unwelcome words and arisen bodily feelings that are painful, racking, sharp, piercing, disagreeable, distressing, and menacing to life. While taints, vexation, and fever might arise in one who does not endure such things, there are no taints, vexation, or fever in one who endures them. These are called the taints that should be abandoned by enduring.

- https://suttacentral.net/en/mn2
Tapas
3. Tapas – Disciplined use of our energy
Tapas refers to the activity of keeping the body fit or to confront and handle the inner urges without outer show. Literally it means to heat the body and, by so doing, to cleanse it. Behind the notion of tapas lies the idea we can direct our energy to enthusiastically engage life and achieve our ultimate goal of creating union with the Divine. Tapas helps us burn up all the desires that stand in our way of this goal. Another form of tapas is paying attention to what we eat. Attention to body posture, attention to eating habits, attention to breathing patterns - these are all tapas.
Ātāpin
Ātāpin (adj.) [fr. ātāpa, cp. BSk. ātāpin Av. Ś i.233; ii. 194 = Divy 37; 618] ardént, zealous, strenuous, active D iii.58, 76 sq., 141 (+ sampajāna), 221, 276; M i.22, 56, 116, 207, 349; ii.11; iii.89, 128, 156; S 113, 117 sq., 140, 165; ii.21, 136 sq.; iii.73 sq.; iv.37, 48, 54, 218; v.165, 187, 213; A ii.13 sq.; iii 38, 100 sq.; iv. 29, 177 sq., 266 sq., 300, 457 sq.; v.343 sq.; Sn 926; Nd1 378; It 41, 42; Vbh 193 sq.; Miln 34, 366; Vism 3 (= viriyavā); DhA i.120; SnA 157, 503. -- Freq. in the formula of Arahantship "eko vūpakaṭṭho appamatto ātāpī pahitatto": see arahant II. B. See also satipaṭṭhāna. <-> Opp. anātāpin S ii.195 sq.; A ii.13; It 27 (+ anottappin).

- Ātāpī is translated by Thanissaro as ardent, preserving the fire connection, it occurs in connection with satipatthana practice.

Also a good example of tapas in buddhism:

“Monks, I have known two qualities through experience: discontent with regard to skillful qualities and unrelenting exertion. Relentlessly I exerted myself, [thinking,] ‘Gladly would I let the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, but if I have not attained what can be reached through human firmness, human persistence, human striving, there will be no relaxing my persistence.’ From this heedfulness of mine was attained Awakening. From this heedfulness of mine was attained the unexcelled freedom from bondage.

“You, too, monks, should relentlessly exert yourselves, [thinking,] ‘Gladly would we let the flesh & blood in our bodies dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, but if we have not attained what can be reached through human firmness, human persistence, human striving, there will be no relaxing our persistence.’ You, too, in no long time will reach & remain in the supreme goal of the holy life for which clansmen rightly go forth from home into homelessness, knowing & realizing it for yourselves in the here & now.

“Thus you should train yourselves: ‘We will relentlessly exert ourselves, [thinking,] “Gladly would we let the flesh & blood in our bodies dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, but if we have not attained what can be reached through human firmness, human persistence, human striving, there will be no relaxing our persistence."’ That’s how you should train yourselves.” - https://suttacentral.net/en/an2.5
Self-study
4. Svadhyaya – Self study
The fourth niyama is svadhyaya. Sva means "self' adhyaya means "inquiry" or "examination". Any activity that cultivates self-reflective consciousness can be considered svadhyaya. It means to intentionally find self-awareness in all our activities and efforts, even to the point of welcoming and accepting our limitations. It teaches us to be centered and non-reactive to the dualities, to burn out unwanted and self-destructive tendencies.
"Rahula, all those brahmans & contemplatives in the course of the past who purified their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, did it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

"All those brahmans & contemplatives in the course of the future who will purify their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, will do it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

"All those brahmans & contemplatives at present who purify their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, do it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

"Thus, Rahula, you should train yourself: 'I will purify my bodily actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my verbal actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my mental actions through repeated reflection.' That's how you should train yourself."

- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Celebration of the Spiritual
5. Isvarapranidhana - Celebration of the Spiritual
Isvarapranidhana means "to lay all your actions at the feet of God." It is the contemplation on God (Isvara) in order to become attuned to god and god's will. It is the recognition that the spiritual suffuses everything and through our attention and care we can attune ourselves with our role as part of the Creator. The practice requires that we set aside some time each day to recognize that there is some omnipresent force larger than ourselves that is guiding and directing the course of our lives. vii
[1] "There is the case where you recollect the Tathagata: 'Indeed, the Blessed One is pure and rightly self-awakened, consummate in knowledge & conduct, well-gone, an expert with regard to the world, unexcelled as a trainer for those people fit to be tamed, the Teacher of divine & human beings, awakened, blessed.' At any time when a disciple of the noble ones is recollecting the Tathagata, his mind is not overcome with passion, not overcome with aversion, not overcome with delusion. His mind heads straight, based on the Tathagata. And when the mind is headed straight, the disciple of the noble ones gains a sense of the goal, gains a sense of the Dhamma, gains joy connected with the Dhamma. In one who is joyful, rapture arises. In one who is rapturous, the body grows calm. One whose body is calmed senses pleasure. In one sensing pleasure, the mind becomes concentrated.

"Mahanama, you should develop this recollection of the Buddha while you are walking, while you are standing, while you are sitting, while you are lying down, while you are busy at work, while you are resting in your home crowded with children.

- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
No asanas or breath control in early buddhist practice as far as I can tell from the suttas. Stretching is definitely helpful though and certain breathing techniques as well, although not all.

Control of the Senses
V. Pratyahara (Control of the Senses)

Pratyahara means drawing back or retreat. The word ahara means "nourishment"; pratyahara translates as "to withdraw oneself from that which nourishes the senses." In yoga, the term pratyahara implies withdrawal of the senses from attachment to external objects. It can then be seen as the practice of non-attachment to sensorial distractions as we constantly return to the path of self realization and achievement of internal peace. It means our senses stop living off the things that stimulate; the senses no longer depend on these stimulants and are not fed by them any more.

In pratyahara we sever this link between mind and senses, and the senses withdraw. When the senses are no longer tied to external sources, the result is restraint or pratyahara. Now that the vital forces are flowing back to the Source within, one can concentrate without being distracted by externals or the temptation to cognize externals.

Pratyahara occurs almost automatically when we meditate because we are so absorbed in the object of meditation. Precisely because the mind is so focused, the senses follow it; it is not happening the other way around.

No longer functioning in their usual manner, the senses become extraordinarily sharp. Under normal circumstances the senses become our masters rather than being our servants. The senses entice us to develop cravings for all sorts of things. In pratyahara the opposite occurs: when we have to eat we eat, but not because we have a craving for food. In pratyahara we try to put the senses in their proper place, but not cut them out of our actions entirely.

Much of our emotional imbalance are our own creation. A person who is influenced by outside events and sensations can never achieve the inner peace and tranquility. This is because he or she will waste much mental and physical energy in trying to suppress unwanted sensations and to heighten other sensations. This will eventually result in a physical or mental imbalance, and will, in most instances, result in illness.

Patanjali says that the above process is at the root of human unhappiness and uneasiness. When people seek out yoga, hoping to find that inner peace which is so evasive, they find that it was theirs all along. In a sense, yoga is nothing more than a process which enables us to stop and look at the processes of our own minds; only in this way can we understand the nature of happiness and unhappiness, and thus transcend them both.xii
"And how does a monk guard the doors to his sense faculties? There is the case where a monk, on seeing a form with the eye, does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the eye. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye.

"On hearing a sound with the ear...

"On smelling an aroma with the nose...

"On tasting a flavor with the tongue...

"On feeling a tactile sensation with the body...

"On cognizing an idea with the intellect, he does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the intellect. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the intellect. This is how a monk guards the doors to his sense faculties.

"And how does a monk know moderation in eating? There is the case where a monk, considering it appropriately, takes his food not playfully, nor for intoxication, nor for putting on bulk, nor for beautification, but simply for the survival & continuance of this body, for ending its afflictions, for the support of the holy life, thinking, 'I will destroy old feelings [of hunger] & not create new feelings [from overeating]. Thus I will maintain myself, be blameless, & live in comfort.' This is how a monk knows moderation in eating.

- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Maybe I'll get to the meditation stuff later...

:anjali:
pegembara wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:29 am
VI. Dharana (Concentration and cultivating inner perceptual awareness)

Dharana means "immovable concentration of the mind". The essential idea is to hold the concentration or focus of attention in one direction. "When the body has been tempered by asanas, when the mind has been refined by the fire of pranayama and when the senses have been brought under control by pratyahara, the sadhaka (seeker) reaches the sixth stage, dharana. Here he is concentrated wholly on a single point or on a task in which he is completely engrossed. The mind has to be stilled in order to achieve this state of complete absorption."xiii

In dharana we create the conditions for the mind to focus its attention in one direction instead of going out in many different directions. Deep contemplation and reflection can create the right conditions, and the focus on this one point that we have chosen becomes more intense. We encourage one particular activity of the mind and, the more intense it becomes, the more the other activities of the mind fall away.

The objective in dharana is to steady the mind by focusing its attention upon some stable entity. The particular object selected has nothing to do with the general purpose, which is to stop the mind from wandering -through memories, dreams, or reflective thought-by deliberately holding it single-mindedly upon some apparently static object. B.K.S. Iyengar states that the objective is to achieve the mental state where the mind, intellect, and ego are "all restrained and all these faculties are offered to the Lord for His use and in His service. Here there is no feeling of 'I' and 'mine'."xiv

When the mind has become purified by yoga practices, it becomes able to focus efficiently on one subject or point of experience. Now we can unleash the great potential for inner healing.
"[1] On whatever occasion a monk breathing in long discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, discerns, 'I am breathing out long'; or breathing in short, discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, discerns, 'I am breathing out short'; trains himself, 'I will breathe in...&... out sensitive to the entire body'; trains himself, 'I will breathe in...&...out calming bodily fabrication': On that occasion the monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. I tell you, monks, that this — the in-&-out breath — is classed as a body among bodies, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
VII. Dhyana (Devotion , Meditation on the Divine)

Dhyana means worship, or profound and abstract religious meditation. It is perfect contemplation. It involves concentration upon a point of focus with the intention of knowing the truth about it. The concept holds that when one focuses their mind in concentration on an object the mind is transformed into the shape of the object. Hence, when one focuses on the divine they become more reflective of it and they know their true nature. "His body, breath, senses, mind, reason and ego are all integrated in the object of his contemplation – the Universal Spirit."xv

During dhyana, the consciousness is further unified by combining clear insights into distinctions between objects and between the subtle layers of perception. "We learn to differentiate between the mind of the perceiver, the means of perception, and the objects perceived, between words, their meanings, and ideas, and between all the levels of evolution of nature."xvi

As we fine-tune our concentration and become more aware of the nature of reality we perceive that the world is unreal. "The only reality is the universal self, or God, which is veiled by Maya (the illusory power). As the veils are lifted, the mind becomes clearer. Unhappiness and fear – even the fear of death – vanishes. This state of freedom, or Moksha, is the goal of Yoga. It can be reached by constant enquiry into the nature of things."xvii Meditation becomes our tool to see things clearly and perceive reality beyond the illusions that cloud our mind.
Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick —
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
VIII. Samadhi (Union with the Divine)

The final step in the eight-fold path of Yoga is the attainment of Samadhi. Samadhi means "to bring together, to merge." In the state of samadhi the body and senses are at rest, as if asleep, yet the faculty of mind and reason are alert, as if awake; one goes beyond consciousness. During samadhi, we realize what it is to be an identity without differences, and how a liberated soul can enjoy pure awareness of this pure identity. The conscious mind drops back into that unconscious oblivion from which it first emerged.

Thus, samadhi refers to union or true Yoga. There is an ending to the separation that is created by the "I" and "mine" of our illusory perceptions of reality. The mind does not distinguish between self and non-self, or between the object contemplated and the process of contemplation. The mind and the intellect have stopped and there is only the experience of consciousness, truth and unutterable joy.

The achievement of samadhi is a difficult task. For this reason the Yoga Sutra suggests the practice of asanas and pranayama as preparation for dharana, because these influence mental activities and create space in the crowded schedule of the mind. Once dharana has occurred, dhyana and samadhi can follow.

These eight steps of yoga indicate a logical pathway that leads to the attainment of physical, ethical, emotional, and psycho-spiritual health. Yoga does not seek to change the individual; rather, it allows the natural state of total health and integration in each of us to become a reality.xviii
"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Time to begin a discussion

If a Buddhist reads the 5 Yamas and 5 Niyamas (given below in case you were too lazy to read above) along with rest of Yoga Sutras of Patanjali it seems that it is plagiarized from Buddhism. If a Hindu reads Buddhism it seems it is Hinduism stripped down to fundamentals.

Ahimsa – Compassion for all living things
Satya – Commitment to Truthfulness
Asteya - Non-stealing
Brahmacharya - Sense control
Aparigraha - Neutralizing the desire to acquire and hoard wealth
Sauca - Purity
Santosa - Contentment
Tapas – Disciplined use of our energy
Svadhyaya – Self study
Isvarapranidhana - Celebration of the Spiritual

But can two people (or two sets of people) not reach same set of rules when approaching enlightenment?

Some of the several simultaneous discoveries in science -

Logarithms – John Napier (Scotland, 1614) and Joost Bürgi (Switzerland, 1618).
Calculus – Isaac Newton, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, Pierre de Fermat and others.
Adrenalin was discovered in 1895 by the Polish physiologist Napoleon Cybulski. It was independently discovered in 1900 by the Japanese chemist Jokichi Takamine and his assistant Keizo Uenaka.
In 1902 Walter Sutton and Theodor Boveri independently proposed that the hereditary information is carried in the chromosomes.

and hundreds more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discovery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... iscoveries

Why can the same not occur with enlightenment? Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo and Raphael were all Renaissance Artists.

We have seen time and again that humans push one another on ..

1920 - 70 was the age of physics with Heisenberg, Einstein, Satyen Bose, Bohr, Fermi, Oppenheimer, Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, Feynman Stephen Hawkins all working together pushing physics to a height not seen since Newton

Yahoo search made even better Google search possible.

Hotmail gave rise to Yahoomail and then Gmail.

Myspace and Orkut made Facebook possible .. it is not that all great programmers were born after 1970 .. just that this is the age of software programmers and they both compete and complement each others work .. invention of World Wide Web and browsers and routers came almost together to give us internet in 1990s .. they were not competing products but complementary

Why do we have to look upon rise of personal computers as Gates vs Jobs .. why not Gates and Jobs.

Each individual entity outdoing the other in innovation and original thought when a particular field emerges is quite common.

Why can this not have happened in India 2,500 years ago about soteriology? Why is it Buddhism vs Hinduism .. why look upon them as competing traditions .. why this otherness from Buddhists .. Hinduism accepts Buddhism and Jainism as valid paths to Nibbana or Moksha or whatever lies at the end. Why do not Buddhists do the same?

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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No_Mind
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 am

The generals on both sides have no differences ..

H.H. Swami Avdheshanand Giri Ji (head of all Naga Sadhus .. the Himalayan ascetics you hear about) & H.H. Dalai Lama

Image

H.H. Dalai Lama and Baba Ramdev hugging each other fondly .. HHDL pulling Baba's beard.



Dalai Lama: Hinduism & Buddhism are like twin brother & sisters .. in this video he gives really succinct description of why these are sibling traditions



:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SarathW
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by SarathW » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:06 am

Why do not Buddhists do the same?
Because, only Buddhism teaches not-self nature and got a clear path.
Another problem is Hindu animal sacrifice sickening me.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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No_Mind
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:28 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:06 am
Why do not Buddhists do the same?
Because, only Buddhism teaches not-self nature and got a clear path.
Another problem is Hindu animal sacrifice sickening me.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2OixQIRg5I

That is like saying whole Western society looks like this -


Image


Vaishnavs are vegetarians .. they would run a mile if they saw meat let alone take part in animal sacrifice .. Shaivism has no animal sacrifice .. it is only present in Shaktism .. the smallest sect .. which is only present in Bengal and Assam .. 2 states out of 30!! Isolated instances may be found in other places.

That video is from Nepal SarathW.

1 billion Hindus from India are not responsible for what some dingbats in Nepal do in name of Hinduism .. just as 1.8 billion Muslims are not responsible for behaviour of 100,000 terrorists.

Avidya .. the word rings a bell SarathW?

You have a habit of passing off Nepalese videos as Indian .. few days back you did the same with slave trade in Nepal from which a mod deleted reference to India at my request.


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Last edited by No_Mind on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by SarathW » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:04 am

That is like saying whole Western society looks like this
Agree.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by SarathW » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:07 am

You have a habit of passing off Nepalese videos as Indian
Sorry for this.
At least my post help to erase the misconception.
You also appreciate that I post other videos from Sadhguru etc.
I am glad you are here to correct me.
I do not expect anyone to accept any of my posts without their own investigation.
:namaste:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:11 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:07 am
You have a habit of passing off Nepalese videos as Indian
Sorry for this.
At least my post help to erase the misconception.
You also appreciate that I post other videos from Sadhguru etc.
I am glad you are here to correct me.
I do not expect anyone to accept any of my posts without their own investigation.
:namaste:
We are brothers Sarath :hug: after all you are 72% Bengali in your genes.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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