Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Dhammanando
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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:27 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:14 am
Well if you live in an Islamic country and publicly assert that half the Koran is heresy, maybe you would be charged with heresy. I'm not saying there is anything ideal about Islam, but stick to the facts don't make up fake interpretations to fit your own prejudices, the Koran is very difficult to translate and interpret, quoting bad English translations out of context, as I said, isn't going to prove anything.
This doesn't really answer my question. You charged Modus with advancing interpretations of the Quran that are "in direct contradiction to those of recognized Islamic scholars." But the interpretive principle that Modus referred to — that the Medina revelations abrogate the Mecca ones whenever the two conflict — is about as mainstream as you can get.

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:31 am

Modus said a lot of things, many of which are in direct contradiction to Islamic teaching, for instance he is in complete denial of the common Islamic teaching that there is no compulsion in religion, could go on and on, but frankly I don't have the time, maybe some of our other posters could point out some things.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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Dhammanando
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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:36 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:27 am
But the interpretive principle that Modus referred to — that the Medina revelations abrogate the Mecca ones whenever the two conflict — is about as mainstream as you can get.
Let me help you out here .... there have been some dissenting voices:
Rejection of Naskh

The principle of naskh is acknowledged by both Sunnis and Shī'a. Among the sects of Islam that rejected naskh were the Mu'tazili, Zaidiyah, and Quranists, on the rationalist grounds that the word of God could not contain contradictions. According to scholar Karel Steenbrink, most twentieth century modernist or reformist scholars, consider the theory "an insult to the integrity and value of the uncreated revelation of God."

More recently the Ahmadiyya also reject the theory of naskh and argue that all Qur'ānic verses have equal validity, in keeping with their emphasis on the "unsurpassable beauty and unquestionable validity of the Qur'ān". The harmonization of apparently incompatible rulings is resolved through their juridical deflation in Ahmadī fiqh, so that a ruling (considered to have applicability only to the specific situation for which it was revealed), is effective not because it was revealed last, but because it is most suited to the situation at hand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)
But no mention of any rejection of naskh by anybody in the Islamic mainstream.

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:42 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:31 am
Modus said a lot of things, many of which are in direct contradiction to Islamic teaching, for instance he is in complete denial of the common Islamic teaching that there is no compulsion in religion
But this is a Meccan revelation. Members of the "heretical" Muslim sects referred to in my earlier post may quote the "no compulsion" passage in good faith, but when mainstream Muslims do so (without mentioning that it's abrogated by the intolerant Medina revelations) it's nearly always an exercise in dissimulation.

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by lostitude » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:54 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:27 am
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:14 am
Well if you live in an Islamic country and publicly assert that half the Koran is heresy, maybe you would be charged with heresy. I'm not saying there is anything ideal about Islam, but stick to the facts don't make up fake interpretations to fit your own prejudices, the Koran is very difficult to translate and interpret, quoting bad English translations out of context, as I said, isn't going to prove anything.
This doesn't really answer my question. You charged Modus with advancing interpretations of the Quran that are "in direct contradiction to those of recognized Islamic scholars." But the interpretive principle that Modus referred to — that the Medina revelations abrogate the Mecca ones whenever the two conflict — is about as mainstream as you can get.
This is really not as simple as that.
First, abrogation has always been controversial from the beginning, with many scholars rejecting the idea since the early centuries of islam.
Second, simply accepting the notion of abrogation does not mean that everyone will agree on which verses abrogate which. There are even controversies regarding the timing of the revelation of some verses, which means that they sometimes don't even know which one came first and which one abrogates it. Not to mention the many verses that seem contradictory but which are reconciled by some scholars through simple logic, thus eliminating the need for the concept of abrogation, but not by others.

The point is that it makes no sense for a non-Muslim to come and say 'here's how I read the text, here's how I understand it, so if you Muslims don't apply it the way I understand it, you're either bad Muslims who don't know their religion, or liars'. What amazes me are those people who are hell-bent of having everyone believe that 'there IS compulsion in islam' and who are dissapointed that most Muslims do not share this opinion because they interpret the texts differently. They lose an opportunity to criticize them, maybe, and it makes them unhappy.

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by DooDoot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:23 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:42 am
Members of the "heretical" Muslim sects referred to in my earlier post may quote the "no compulsion" passage in good faith, but when mainstream Muslims do so (without mentioning that it's abrogated by the intolerant Medina revelations) it's nearly always an exercise in dissimulation.
Which are these intolerant Medina revelations? Please quote them, in context. Thank you. Also, why did Islam from its very inception not follow these so-called Medina revelations?

I have noticed "interpretation" is popular in Buddhism, even though the Dhamma is supposedly "visible here & now, inviting inspection, verified by the wise". Similarly, is this "interpretation" of Islam something different to the reality of its visible & knowable history?
In August, the two sides met along the Yarmouk River where they a fought a major battle which ended in a decisive Muslim victory, solidifying Muslim rule in Syria and Palestine. While the Muslims administered the city, the population of Damascus remained mostly Christian—Eastern Orthodox and Monophysite—with a growing community of Muslims from Mecca, Medina, and the Syrian Desert.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus#Islamic_Arab_era

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by DooDoot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 am
I'm sorry, but I have to point out that this is dangerously wrong. Nazis were swimming in lies. Lies about jews. Lies about "race". Lies about their "race". Lies about the history of their "race". Lies about history in general. Nazis were not merely interpreting the facts in a different way. They were deluded about what the facts were.
Modus

Have you ever considered your attitude towards Islam might possibly share some similar traits to the Nazi attitude towards Jews? Are you aware Judaism & Islam are very similar religions, both including violence or militarism to establish their visions of a worldly utopia? Surely, the Nazis & many German people had some grievances against Jews, such as the atheist yet seemingly Judaic philosophy of Communism; which I think might be a similar situation to your concerns about Islam.
June 5, 1941 ZURICH

While having many Jewish friends before the World War, ex-Kaiser Wilhelm II turned completely anti-Jewish after the war when he lost his throne and was compelled to live in exile in Doom, Holland, it was recalled here today in connection with the death of the ex-ruler of Germany at the age of 82. The ex-Kaiser blamed the Jews for his defeat. “I shall not leave the throne to please a couple of hundred Jews and several thousand workers,” he was reported to have said to Dr. Drews, German Minister of Interior who conveyed to him on Nov. 3, 1918, the request of the German Government that he abdicate.

https://www.jta.org/1941/06/05/archive/ ... nys-defeat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_I ... tisemitism
The Bavarian Soviet Republic (German: Bayerische Räterepublik) was the short-lived unrecognised socialist state in Bavaria during the German Revolution of 1918–19. It took the form of a workers' council republic. Its name is variously rendered in English as the Bavarian Council Republic or the Munich Soviet Republic (the German name Räterepublik means a republic of councils or committees; council or committee is also the meaning of the Russian word soviet) after its capital of Munich. It was established in April 1919 following the demise of Kurt Eisner's People's State of Bavaria and sought independence from the also newly-proclaimed Weimar Republic. However, it was overthrown less than a month later by elements of the German Army and the paramilitary Freikorps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic

Eugen Leviné (Russian: Евгений Левине) (born 10 May 1883 – 5 July 1919) was a German communist revolutionary and leader of the short-lived Bavarian Council Republic. Leviné was born in St. Petersburg into the Jewish merchant family Julius and Rozalia (née Goldberg).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Levin%C3%A9

Kurt Eisner [kʊʁt ˈaɪ̯snɐ] (14 May 1867 – 21 February 1919) was a journalist and theatre critic. As a socialist journalist, he organised the Socialist Revolution that overthrew the Wittelsbach monarchy in Bavaria in November 1918. He is used as an example of charismatic authority by Max Weber. He proclaimed the Free State of Bavaria. Kurt Eisner was born in Berlin at 10:15 p.m. on 14 May 1867, to Emanuel Eisner and Hedwig Levenstein, both Jewish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Eisner

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by lostitude » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:53 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:42 am
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:31 am
Modus said a lot of things, many of which are in direct contradiction to Islamic teaching, for instance he is in complete denial of the common Islamic teaching that there is no compulsion in religion
But this is a Meccan revelation. Members of the "heretical" Muslim sects referred to in my earlier post may quote the "no compulsion" passage in good faith, but when mainstream Muslims do so (without mentioning that it's abrogated by the intolerant Medina revelations) it's nearly always an exercise in dissimulation.
As a former 'mainstream Muslim' I do not recognize myself nor the thousands of Muslims I have known and prayed and fasted with during my life as a Muslim, in this description of yours. You are just imagining ill-intentions that are only there in your mind, and on top of that attributing said 'exercise in dissimulation' to 'mainstream Muslims' as a whole! I am sorry but when someone is so convinced yet so far from the reality on the ground, there's no getting around the simple fact that you have been brainwashed into holding such views that are so far from the truth. Sorry...
We simply don't understand abrogation as you do, nor do we attach to those verses the importance you think we should attach. Reality check please.

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:10 pm

lostitude wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:59 pm
Being glad, again, doesn't mean you can't wait for other people to rot in hell and drool in anticipation about them burning forever.
I'm just following some basic claims to their logical conclusions.
Consistency can be uncomfortable sometimes ...
1 Judge Eternal, throned in splendor,
Lord of lords and King of kings,
with your living fire of judgment
purge this land of bitter things
;
solace all its wide dominion
with the healing of your wings.

2 Still the weary folk are pining
for the hour that brings release
,
and the city’s crowded clangor
cries aloud for sin to cease,
and the homesteads and the woodlands
plead in silence for their peace.

3 Crown, O God, your own endeavor;
cleave our darkness with your sword;
feed the faithless and the hungry
with the richness of your word;
cleanse the body of this nation
through the glory of the Lord.

https://hymnary.org/text/judge_eternal_ ... n_splendor
- - -
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:42 pm
Binocular is not ill-informed here necessarily by impying that as a possible reading of the 'good' in the good news. Christian apocalyptic literature is very ambiguous as to theodicy. Just like you can pick a certain jurisprudence of Islam and correspondingly form an impression of it as X or Y, one can pick from a myriad of Christian methodologies for dealing with the justification for a damnation that is described as eternal. I can find the quote shortly, but there exists a theologounemon popular in Protestant Revivalist circles, which justifies damnation in a way similar to the above.

Explained in layman's terms: you don't need to be worried about being upset in your glorified body on account of the suffering of those in hell. As glorified beings, we will have an expanded perspective on account of our closeness with God, we will understand that those in hell are profoundly wicked, because only with God may we be not wicked (this is in intersection with the 'doctrine of utter depravity' from Calvin).
I actually wasn't thinking anything fancy like that. I simply followed some basic, non-controversial claims to their logical conclusions.
But, alas, as always:
/.../
In the new eternal life, God will be everything to His creatures, not only to the good but also to the wicked, not only to those who love Him, but likewise to those who hate Him. But how will those who hate Him endure to have everything from the hands of Him Whom they detest? Oh, what an eternal torment is this, what an eternal fire, what a gnashing of teeth!

Depart from Me, ye cursed, into the everlasting inner fire of hatred,” 47 saith the Lord, because I was thirsty for your love and you did not give it to Me, I was hungry for your blessedness and you did not offer it to Me, I was imprisoned in My human nature and you did not come to visit Me in My church; you are free to go where your wicked desire wishes, away from Me, in the torturing hatred of your hearts which is foreign to My loving heart which knows no hatred for anyone. Depart freely from love to the everlasting torture of hate, unknown and foreign to Me and to those who are with Me, but prepared by freedom for the devil, from the days I created My free, rational creatures. But wherever you go in the darkness of your hating hearts, My love will follow you like a river of fire, because no matter what your heart has chosen, you are and you will eternally continue to be, My children.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2go ... kalomiros/
Last edited by binocular on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:28 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 am
Historical reality proves the above is absolutely wrong because under the Islamic Empire people were free to practise their religions.
... and pay a tax for doing so. That's not exactly "freedom to practice one's religion."
Jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزية‎ ǧizya IPA: [dʒizja]; Ottoman Turkish: جزيه‎ cizye) is a per capita yearly tax historically levied by Islamic states on certain non-Muslim subjects—dhimmis—permanently residing in Muslim lands under Islamic law.[1][2][3] Muslim jurists required adult, free, sane males among the dhimma community to pay the jizya,[4] while exempting women, children, elders, handicapped, the ill, the insane, monks, hermits, slaves,[5][6][7][8][9] and musta'mins—non-Muslim foreigners who only temporarily reside in Muslim lands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya
- - -
lostitude wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:53 am
As a former 'mainstream Muslim' I do not recognize myself nor the thousands of Muslims I have known and prayed and fasted with during my life as a Muslim, in this description of yours. You are just imagining ill-intentions that are only there in your mind, and on top of that attributing said 'exercise in dissimulation' to 'mainstream Muslims' as a whole! I am sorry but when someone is so convinced yet so far from the reality on the ground, there's no getting around the simple fact that you have been brainwashed into holding such views that are so far from the truth. Sorry...
We simply don't understand abrogation as you do, nor do we attach to those verses the importance you think we should attach. Reality check please.
There may be no compulsion in Islam (or religion in general), but there is the equivalent of "peer pressure". Which actually seems more effective than brute force anyway.
Last edited by binocular on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:33 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:48 pm
narhwal90 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:30 pm
Case in point of disparate views; a good friend of mine is Catholic, one of her aunts, Catholic as well, was big into an obscure tradition that daily prayed for armageddon so as to speed the arrival of the rapture. I'm inclined to think any similarly big enough, old enough religion will have all sorts of odd nooks and corners such that most any argument can be supported via appropriate cherry-picking.
Not so much "cherry picking", but the point you raise demonstrates that there's a diverse spectrum of understandings in play within any given major world religion. Think about the diverse understandings members have here within the spectrum of Theravada Buddhism itself, let alone Buddhism as a whole!

Criticism of the extremes should not be regarded as criticism of the whole, and conversely, where the whole is criticized, it's important to make an effort to understand whether that which is under criticism genuinely applies to the whole.
It's a matter of effective discussion strategy: Pick the one variant of an argument that is the most extreme, or in which the weaker ones converge, refute that one, and you will have refuted all weaker ones along with it, or at least clarified the most pertinent point of the matter.

Hence my focus on eternal damnation. I'm not interested in detailed criticism, or the pros and cons of a particular religion. I only want to see whether it should be accepted, or dismissed. Otherwise, one just gets bogged down in details and in the efforts to find something positive everywhere.

In its proper application, the analytical mind exhausts itself.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by Modus.Ponens » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:50 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am
Modus.Ponens wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 am
I'm sorry, but I have to point out that this is dangerously wrong. Nazis were swimming in lies. Lies about jews. Lies about "race". Lies about their "race". Lies about the history of their "race". Lies about history in general. Nazis were not merely interpreting the facts in a different way. They were deluded about what the facts were.
Modus

Have you ever considered your attitude towards Islam might possibly share some similar traits to the Nazi attitude towards Jews? Are you aware Judaism & Islam are very similar religions, both including violence or militarism to establish their visions of a worldly utopia? Surely, the Nazis & many German people had some grievances against Jews, such as the atheist yet seemingly Judaic philosophy of Communism; which I think might be a similar situation to your concerns about Islam.
June 5, 1941 ZURICH

While having many Jewish friends before the World War, ex-Kaiser Wilhelm II turned completely anti-Jewish after the war when he lost his throne and was compelled to live in exile in Doom, Holland, it was recalled here today in connection with the death of the ex-ruler of Germany at the age of 82. The ex-Kaiser blamed the Jews for his defeat. “I shall not leave the throne to please a couple of hundred Jews and several thousand workers,” he was reported to have said to Dr. Drews, German Minister of Interior who conveyed to him on Nov. 3, 1918, the request of the German Government that he abdicate.

https://www.jta.org/1941/06/05/archive/ ... nys-defeat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_I ... tisemitism
The Bavarian Soviet Republic (German: Bayerische Räterepublik) was the short-lived unrecognised socialist state in Bavaria during the German Revolution of 1918–19. It took the form of a workers' council republic. Its name is variously rendered in English as the Bavarian Council Republic or the Munich Soviet Republic (the German name Räterepublik means a republic of councils or committees; council or committee is also the meaning of the Russian word soviet) after its capital of Munich. It was established in April 1919 following the demise of Kurt Eisner's People's State of Bavaria and sought independence from the also newly-proclaimed Weimar Republic. However, it was overthrown less than a month later by elements of the German Army and the paramilitary Freikorps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic

Eugen Leviné (Russian: Евгений Левине) (born 10 May 1883 – 5 July 1919) was a German communist revolutionary and leader of the short-lived Bavarian Council Republic. Leviné was born in St. Petersburg into the Jewish merchant family Julius and Rozalia (née Goldberg).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Levin%C3%A9

Kurt Eisner [kʊʁt ˈaɪ̯snɐ] (14 May 1867 – 21 February 1919) was a journalist and theatre critic. As a socialist journalist, he organised the Socialist Revolution that overthrew the Wittelsbach monarchy in Bavaria in November 1918. He is used as an example of charismatic authority by Max Weber. He proclaimed the Free State of Bavaria. Kurt Eisner was born in Berlin at 10:15 p.m. on 14 May 1867, to Emanuel Eisner and Hedwig Levenstein, both Jewish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Eisner
Hello.

Of course I have considered it, despite the situations not being comparable. The subtext to all of these conversations is that very fear you expressed, and a legitimate one at that. In face of the problem we're having with islamic fascism there are 3 options: (1) Ignore/deny the problem; (2) Try to talk about the problem and solve it as peacefully and democratically as possible; (3) Solve it through force. I follow option (2) and oppose options (1) and (3). It is obvious why option (3) should be avoided. The big problem is that people who choose (1) are not aware that they are sweeping the problem under the rug. This is especially serious when politicians do it. The result is that the far right is growing everywhere in the West. If the center parties do their job within the framework of democracy, we will not end up at point (3). But if people who choose (1) insist on not providing constructive solutions, and on insulting those who choose (2), they are preventing (2) and, thus, causing (3). What I have always tried to prevent was option (3).

The second point that is very important to mention is that the levels of antisemitism in the islamic world are shocking (but, for unfanthomable reasons, "progressives" think that islamic bigotry is ok). Whether on TV, on the dictators' mouths, or on the preachers' mouths, it is shocking and unacceptable. Jews are fleeing Europe, especially France, due to the hate crimes commited against them, which still surpass those commited against muslims, despite being fewer jews than muslims in the West. It should be needless to say, but I do not support attributing collective blame to muslims for what the fascist portion of muslims do.

Thirdly, on the compulsory nature of religion, non muslims living in a muslim land have to pay a special tax and be humilliated. It is either convert, die, or live in humilliation. Only by converting can you escape the servile condition.

Fourthly, we are lucky that most people, of any religion, do not follow their religion with dogmatic zeal. This means that religious doctrines influence the behaviour of people, but do not determine the behaviour of the adherents. This simple truth is why criticizing islam is not criticizing all muslims. And it is also why criticism of the bad elements in islamic doctrines contributes to less violence and, thus, is not itself a bad thing.

Fortunately, there is hope for secularism also based in islamic theology, as well as for reformation. One important factor is that islam does not have a central authority, a pope. It is also islamic doctrine that whatever interpretation of islam that is consistent with the canonical texts is legitimately islamic. Since there are competing interpretations within the bounds of consistency, the competing interpretations have two options: form factions and wage war on each other, or adopt separation between religion and state. That's what we did after the wars in Europe based on religion. It would be great if the muslim world could skip all the years that took us to figure out separation of religion and state. Furthermore, the koran, which is believed by many to be the infallible word of god has several scientific mistakes in it, such as the sperm being supposed to be formed around the chest cavity (sorry, this is the only example that springs to my mind at the moment). This means that koranic literalism will have to be rejected at some point, which will trickle down to the interpretation of the hadiths. So, after these two things, a large scale project of reformation can begin and, hopefully, succeed.

With this, I bow out of these islam discussions. My time is more precious than this and I left the forum primarily because I was discussing this too much. Any doubts, consult the canonical sources, and support people like Maajid Nawaz, Raheel Raza, Asra Nomani, Irshad Manji, Ali Rizvi, and so forth.

Over and out.

Añjali

PS: Please make an effort to understand that point (2) is not evil, even if you disagree with it. Also, I will not reply further, even to lies.
Last edited by Modus.Ponens on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by lostitude » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:55 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:28 pm
DooDoot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 am
Historical reality proves the above is absolutely wrong because under the Islamic Empire people were free to practise their religions.
... and pay a tax for doing so. That's not exactly "freedom to practice one's religion."
1/The tax they paid came in replacement of the zakat, which is what the Muslims had to pay.
2/They were exempted from military service and their freedom to practice their religion protected, as long as they paid this tax. Don't you pay tax in exchange for law and order, in your country?

There may be no compulsion in Islam (or religion in general), but there is the equivalent of "peer pressure".
So? How is this specific to islam, and how does it warrant islam-bashing by Buddhists?

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:57 pm

Greetings Modus.Ponens,

Excellent post, well said.

TL;DR - Necessary reformation of Islam, in keeping with the principles of modern civilization, will dampen the threat of both Islamic extremism and the far-right.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Will certain Buddhists on DW please stop disparaging other faiths

Post by ryanM » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:10 pm

Pastafarians are a godless people with nothing but noodles for brains.
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya

"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"

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