Measureless mind

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
alan
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Measureless mind

Post by alan » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:50 am

Hi All.
Recently there have been posts wondering about the idea that "everything is suffering", as well as questions about the usefulness of understanding Pali words. These questions are not easily answered within a forum, as they deserve time, attention and proper focus, and the essence of the question can be obscured as various people express their viewpoints. Sometimes it is useful to go to one source, someone you trust and know to be insightful, to get a basic overview of questions of this nature.
I recently came across the site of our friend Nana, and found it to be lucid, insightful, and inspiring. He offers some different translations of key words, and has an excellent introduction to the 4 truths. Good stuff that is well worth your time. Highly recommended! http://measurelessmind.ca/

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Ben
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by Ben » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:52 am

Its been a long time since I've checked out Geoff's site.
At moments like these I wish there were more hours in the day!
Alan, I'm glad you've found Geoff's site of benefit. One of these days I'll spend some more time there as well.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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retrofuturist
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:56 am

Greetings,

I remember reading an earlier version of this site and finding the content to be very good.

As a Suttavadin (for want of a better term), I give it the thumbs up.

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

alan
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by alan » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:14 am

Hope I'm not barking into the wind here. Who doesn't love high thoughts and useful ideas?

Nyana
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by Nyana » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:40 am

alan wrote:I recently came across the site of our friend Nana, and found it to be lucid, insightful, and inspiring. He offers some different translations of key words, and has an excellent introduction to the 4 truths. Good stuff that is well worth your time. Highly recommended! http://measurelessmind.ca/
Thanks for the kind words Alan. Glad to hear that you have found it to be of some use. The site is still only about 50% completed. Maybe I'll be motivated to continue with it sometime soon....

All the best,

Geoff

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tiltbillings
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:56 am

retrofuturist wrote:As a Suttavadin (for want of a better term), I give it the thumbs up.
Probably would better described as a suttantika, one who is versed in the suttas. Suttavadin would be one follows the school of the suttas.

and for our female followers of the suttas, suttantakini.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Nyana
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by Nyana » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:33 am

retrofuturist wrote:As a Suttavadin (for want of a better term), I give it the thumbs up.
For anyone who's interested in such things: While the site is definitely oriented towards what the suttas have to say, the hermeneutic interpretation follows the Pāli Peṭakopadesa and Nettippakaraṇa quite closely. These two treatises were specifically composed to aid with the interpretation of the Pāli suttas, and for the most part, they remain quite faithful to the thought-world and language of the suttas. Thus, a more accurate distinction can be made between sutta exposition (suttantabhājaniya) and abhidhamma exposition (abhidhammabhājaniya). The latter would rely more heavily on the terminology and developmental models of the Abhidhammapiṭaka and later commentaries which use that type of ābhidhammika framework.
tiltbillings wrote:Probably would better described as a suttantika, one who is versed in the suttas.
Yes.

:buddha1:

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DNS
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by DNS » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:58 pm

alan wrote: Highly recommended! http://measurelessmind.ca/
:thumbsup:

Great site! Well-researched.

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Re: Measureless mind

Post by chownah » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:28 am

My apologies to all if I have actually taken attention away from the topic here which is the "Measureless Mind" website....I looked...I saw...I liked.........of course just from being myself I found a few odds and ends that in my view could benefit from some touching up!!...but I won't rein in the parade nor rain on it further.....maybe later.....
chownah

Nyana
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by Nyana » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:13 am

chownah wrote:I looked...I saw...I liked.........of course just from being myself I found a few odds and ends that in my view could benefit from some touching up!!...but I won't rein in the parade nor rain on it further.....maybe later.....
Constructive feedback is valuable. I'd be interested to hear any suggestions for improving the content and/or navigation and/or design of the site. (Pls keep in mind that the content is only about 50% completed.)

All the best,

Geoff

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gavesako
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by gavesako » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:03 am

Several times you use "full awareness (sampajāna)" but this Pali word is actually describing someone who has "sampajañña".
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

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cooran
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by cooran » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:00 am

Hello Bhante,

Just for the benefit of those of us who aren't familiar with those two words:

sampajāna

Source: A.P. Buddhadatta Mahathera, Concise Pali-English and English-Pali Dictionary [available as digital version from Metta Net, Sri Lanka]
Description: sampajāna : [adj.] thoughtful.
Source: Pali-English Dictionary, TW Rhys Davids, William Stede,
Description: sampajāna (adj.) [saŋ+pajāna, cp. pajānāti; bsk. sam- prajāna, mvastu i.206; ii.360] thoughtful, mindful, attentive, deliberate, almost syn. with sata, mindful d i.37; ii.94 sq.; sn 413, 931; it 10, 42; pug 25; d iii.49, 58, 221, 224 sq.; a iv.47 sq., 300 sq., 457 sq.; nd1 395; nd2 141. sampajānakārin acting with consideration or full attention d i.70; ii.95, 292; a ii.210; v.206; vbha 347 sq.; da i.184 sq.; sampājanamusāvāda deliberate lie vin iv.2; it 18; d iii.45; a i.128; iv.370; v.265; j i.23.
http://glossary.buddhistdoor.com/en/wor ... /sampajana" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...................................................................................
sampajañña

Source: Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by NYANATILOKA MAHATHERA
Description:
sampajañña: 'clarity of consciousness', clear comprehension. This term is frequently met with in combination with mindfulness (sati). In D. 22, M. 10 it is said: "Clearly conscious is he in going and coming, clearly conscious in looking forward and backward, clearly conscious in bending and stretching his body; clearly conscious in eating, drinking, chewing and tasting, clearly conscious in discharging excrement and urine; clearly conscious in walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep and awakening; clearly conscious in speaking and keeping silent." - For a definition of the term sati-sampajañña, s. Pug. 86.
According to the Com., 'clarity of consciousness' is of 4 kinds: regarding the purpose, the suitability, (inclusion in the meditative) domain, and the undeluded conception of the activity concerned. Explained in detail in Com. to Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta. (tr. in The Way of Mindfulness, by Soma Thera; BPS).

Source: A.P. Buddhadatta Mahathera, Concise Pali-English and English-Pali Dictionary [available as digital version from Metta Net, Sri Lanka]
Description:
sampajañña : [nt.] discrimination; comprehension.
Source: Pali-English Dictionary, TW Rhys Davids, William Stede,
Description: sampajañña (nt.) [fr. sampajāna, i. e. *sampajānya] atten- tion, consideration, discrimination, comprehension, circumspection a i.13 sq.; ii.93; iii.307; iv.320; v.98 sq.; s iii.169; d iii.213 (sati+samp. opp. to muṭṭha -- sacca+ asampajañña), 273. description of it in detail at da i.183 sq.=vbha 347 sq., where given as fourfold, viz. sātthaka˚, sappāya˚, gocara˚, asammoha˚, with examples. often combined with sati, with which almost synonymous, e. g. at d i.63; a i.43; ii.44 sq.; v.115, 118.
http://glossary.buddhistdoor.com/en/search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Nyana
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Re: Measureless mind

Post by Nyana » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:23 pm

gavesako wrote:Several times you use "full awareness (sampajāna)" but this Pali word is actually describing someone who has "sampajañña".
Good eye Bhante! Thnx.

:anjali:

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Kumara
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Re: Measureless mind (Geoffrey Shatz's website)

Post by Kumara » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:15 am

Nyana wrote:The site is still only about 50% completed. Maybe I'll be motivated to continue with it sometime soon....
Would you consider it 100%, or near that, now?

Actually, I just want to bump this up. :-) Excellent work, Geoff, excellent.
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Re: Measureless mind (Geoffrey Shatz's website)

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:17 am

Kumara wrote:
Nyana wrote:The site is still only about 50% completed. Maybe I'll be motivated to continue with it sometime soon....
Would you consider it 100%, or near that, now?

Actually, I just want to bump this up. :-) Excellent work, Geoff, excellent.
Yes, an excellent resource, thanks Geoff. :clap:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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