Give up all your ideas first!

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Re: Give up all your ideas first!

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:53 am

Hanzze wrote:Thanks tiltbillings,

is that metta toward to my person or the all the poor people in here :smile: In any way may you enjoy the merit of you deed of compassion. I am quite different, very ignorant and never tell the right thing in an easy way.

Do not focus to much on the monkey, maybe there is something useful between the gramma mistakes. :rolleye:
Get rid of the ugly monkey and work to fix the grammar mistakes.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: Give up all your ideas first!

Post by Akuma » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:56 am

Hanzze wrote:Dear Friends,
there you have an old used PC and you like to make a beautiful 3D design with a new tech program.
Would it be possible to make it?

No, there are so many other programs, wrong dll's, autoruns, wrong installations...
and if you delete the old programs would it be possible?
No, there are still system entry's, wrong paths...
And what if you make a new installation of system, clean all and make it empty?
I guess the program would run.

(Comic- style I know, but could the message be the same?)
As mikenz said the sutta is about meditation, more accurately it is about the prerequisite to jhanic attainment. The putting down of the stick symbolizes vitakka, the rubbing symbolizes vicara and the fire symbolizes panna. The wetness is the hindrance of sensuality.

Also, in this caes Vitakka does not mean "idea" but "initial [mental] application", which in this context means the initial fixing of citta to the meditation-object, while Vicara then works the object / keeps focusing. Sensuality would then disrupt this stream. Vitakka is also seen as a counteragent to the hindrances of sensuality, sloth and torpor and is let go first in the 2nd / 3rd Jhana, not before that. The ending of what is commonly called discursive thought is then an effect of samma-samadhi, not a prerequisite. Their interruption depends on the quality of ones concentrative power. In my experience discursive thinking disappears in the access stage.

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Re: Give up all your ideas first!

Post by meindzai » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:56 pm

Hanzze wrote:Dear friends,

what if we try to be not to much attached to words and just a speculation that my ideas are not them much mixed with unwholsome thought and we read this translation:

Aren't you the one telling us to give up all your ideas first?

In the case, why are you stuck on your idea about the Sutta? Shouldn't you give it up? By your insistence on this meaning you have already violated your own interpretation.



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