Sidney wrote:Sorry Jack, I don't agree with you. The mental states that you've described are mostly illusions or delusions created momentraily by mind altering drugs.
[snipp)I can't help whether you believe it or not, but there is life after death, and there are heavens as well as hells. I used to be a sceptic myself at one time, but I have direct experience to believe in their existences.
metta,
Sidney
==============
Realms such as hell, heavenly, hungry ghost, human, etc., can be used to describe mental states that we all go through every day.
As for life before or after death, MN 63::
"Whoever says that as long as the Enlightened One has not solved the problems concerning whether "this world is eternal or not eternal; whether this self and body are one and the same or the self is one thing and the body another; or whether there is or is not life after death, or whether there is a confirmation of both existence and non-existence or a denial of existence and non-existence after death; " I will not live the Holy Life (brahmacariya) that the Enlightened One has set down -- this person is likely to die before he hears the answers to these questions, because the Thathagata does not speculate about such matters."
There are concrete physical sub-realms right here within our human realm. As we're speaking, there are Somalians dying of starvation in Africa while there're billionaires in America sipping coffee and watching the interest in their bank accounts accumulate by the tens or hundreds of thousands dollar every hour. There are Afgan newborn baby girls being thrown away into public dumpsters while there are European newborn babies whose birthday party cost is enough to cover medical cost for 10,000 sick people in Asia. The "realms" are a lot more "real" than mere mental states..
Jack wrote:
Realms such as hell, heavenly, hungry ghost, human, etc., can be used to describe mental states that we all go through every day.
As for life before or after death, MN 63::
"Whoever says that as long as the Enlightened One has not solved the problems concerning whether "this world is eternal or not eternal; whether this self and body are one and the same or the self is one thing and the body another; or whether there is or is not life after death, or whether there is a confirmation of both existence and non-existence or a denial of existence and non-existence after death; " I will not live the Holy Life (brahmacariya) that the Enlightened One has set down -- this person is likely to die before he hears the answers to these questions, because the Thathagata does not speculate about such matters."
We can agree to disagree.
Jack
Agreeing to disagree is fine, but that quotation is not what MN63 says.
"So, Malunkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared. And what is undeclared by me? 'The cosmos is eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is not eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is finite'... 'The cosmos is infinite'... 'The soul & the body are the same'... 'The soul is one thing and the body another'... 'After death a Tathagata exists'... 'After death a Tathagata does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata both exists & does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist,' is undeclared by me.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Jack[/quote]
Agreeing to disagree is fine, but that quotation is not what MN63 says.
"So, Malunkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared. And what is undeclared by me? 'The cosmos is eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is not eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is finite'... 'The cosmos is infinite'... 'The soul & the body are the same'... 'The soul is one thing and the body another'... 'After death a Tathagata exists'... 'After death a Tathagata does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata both exists & does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist,' is undeclared by me.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]
========================
Are you aware that there are several translations of this sutta? The one I quoted was by Payutto Bhikkhu. Still another one is by Bhikkhu Bodhi. There are many more. My reading is that all mean the same thing. Going on in the sutta the Buddha when asked about life after death and other metaphysical questions responded that that wasn't what he taught. Then he tells the story of the person who staggered into a village with a poisoned arrow stuck in his back. The villagers gathered round and started discussing who designed the arrow, etc. The Buddha said the important thing is to get the poison out not waste time on meaningless speculation. He said that we all have the poison of suffering in us right now and we should spend our time of getting it out. In another sutta, the Buddha said he only teaches suffering and the alleviation of suffering.
Jack wrote:
Are you aware that there are several translations of this sutta? The one I quoted was by Payutto Bhikkhu. Still another one is by Bhikkhu Bodhi. There are many more. My reading is that all mean the same thing. Going on in the sutta the Buddha when asked about life after death and other metaphysical questions responded that that wasn't what he taught. Then he tells the story of the person who staggered into a village with a poisoned arrow stuck in his back. The villagers gathered round and started discussing who designed the arrow, etc. The Buddha said the important thing is to get the poison out not waste time on meaningless speculation. He said that we all have the poison of suffering in us right now and we should spend our time of getting it out. In another sutta, the Buddha said he only teaches suffering and the alleviation of suffering.
jack
You aren't going to be able to use the suttas to show the Buddha didn't speak of rebirth, when he does in so very many of them. An alternate translation of one sutta is nothing to hang your hat on. The fact is, he taught port-mortem rebirth. End of story. There was no agnosticism on the question whatsoever. Any objective reader can see for themselves what the Buddha said on the matter, the evidence is overwhelming.
"And what is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are priests & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Realms such as hell, heavenly, hungry ghost, human, etc., can be used to describe mental states that we all go through every day.
As for life before or after death, MN 63::
"Whoever says that as long as the Enlightened One has not solved the problems concerning whether "this world is eternal or not eternal; whether this self and body are one and the same or the self is one thing and the body another; or whether there is or is not life after death, or whether there is a confirmation of both existence and non-existence or a denial of existence and non-existence after death; " I will not live the Holy Life (brahmacariya) that the Enlightened One has set down -- this person is likely to die before he hears the answers to these questions, because the Thathagata does not speculate about such matters."
We can agree to disagree.
Jack[/quote]
A Wise Blind Man and a Castaway
Once a sailor was drifted to a small island inhabited by people who were blind from birth. However, they have developed their other four senses and could live easily on fruits and berries and fishes which were abundant. They can spike fishes using their acute sense of hearing, and their headman was very wise and articulate.
One evening while they were sitting on the beach the castaway made a remark on the beautiful sunset, praising the glory of the sun. The wise man overheard and asked him, ’what are you talking about; there’s no sun here.’
So, the castaway tried to explain him about the sun and how beautiful its rays are, and all about the colours of a rainbow. The headman was perplexed and refused to accept the existence of the sun.
The castaway then, tried to give him an example on the warmth when going out in the sun, hoping that he could understand using the perception that the headman can experience. But he replied ’Oh, there must be some fire on the island.’
The castaway grabbed this opportunity and tried again, ‘yes, it’s like a big ball of fire up in the sky.’
However, the obstinate headman replied ‘I have been here ages ago, and I know each and every place; there’s no sky and there’s no sun!’ ‘If there is sky I can touch it and so the sun; I know if I touch fire it burns.’
The castaway finally gave up knowing that he would never convince the wise blind man and proclaimed, ‘that must be the reason why the Buddha did not engage in further discussion with the Brahmin as He would waste His precious time teaching and helping people to get enlightened.’
‘We Agree to Disagree.’
The reference on Sotanugata sutta can be found in Sutta Pitaka; Anguttara Nikaya: Catukkanipatta: 504-509
N.B. You will need 'vri Pali font' to decode the following verses. It is available on Vipassana Research Institute website; please use vri Pali font search.
ENGLISH TRANSLATION (2)
(20) 5. Maha Vagga
1. SOTANUGATA SUTTA
Discourse on Benefits Acquired by Hearing (the Dhamma)
191. Bhikkhus, definite benefits accruing from what has been acquired by hearing, what has been constantly practised by reciting, what has been borne in mind and what has been penetratingly known by intellect are these four kinds.
What are the four ?
Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu in this Teaching has learnt the Teaching, namely Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella. That bhikkhu has taken these in by hearing, constantly practised these by reciting, borne in mind and penetratingly known by intellect. If that bhikkhu dies (by any chance in forgetfulness), he will be reborn in a certain deva realm. There, in that person who is endowed with wellbeing in that deva realm, those dhammas are clearly manifest. Bhikkhus, arising of recollections may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly. Bhikkhus, this is the first of the (definite) benefits accruing from what has been acquired by hearing, what has been constantly practised by reciting, what has been borne in mind, and what has been penetratingly known by intellect.
Another kind, bhikkhus, is that a bhikkhu in this Teaching has learnt the Teaching namely, Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella. That bhikkhu has taken in by hearing, constantly practised by reciting, borne in mind and penetratingly known by intellect. If (by any chance) that bhikkhu dies in forgetfulness, he will be reborn in a certain deva realm. There, in that person who is endowed with wellbeing in that deva realm, those dhammas are not clearly manifest. Then a bhikkhu of high attainments in psychic power who has a well-practised mind expounds to the deva audience the Teachings (of the Buddha), and it occurs to that (forgetting) person thus; ‘The noble practice of the Teaching which I have practised before is the same as this dhamma (which this bhikkhu is expounding).’ Bhikkhus, arising of recollection may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly.
Bhikkhus, if a drum expert hears a sound of a drum on his long journey, he has no uncertainity in discerning whether it is the sound of a drum or not, but he can decide with certainty that it is the sound of a drum. In the same instance, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu has learnt Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella. That bhikkhu has taken in by hearing, constantly practised by reciting, borne in mind and penetratingly known by intellect. If (by any chance) that bhikkhu dies in forgetfulness, he will be reborn in a certain deva realm. There, in that person who is endowed with wellbeing in that deva realm, those dhammas are clearly manifest. Then a bhikkhu of high attainments in psychic power who has a well-practised mind expounds to the deva audience the Teachings (of the Buddha), and it occurs to that (forgetting) person thus; ‘The noble practice of the Teaching which I have practised before is the same as this dhamma (which this bhikkhu is expounding).’ Bhikkhus, arising of recollection may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly. Bhikkhus, this is the second of the (definite) benefits accruing from what has been acquired by hearing, what has been constantly practised by reciting, what has been borne in mind, and what has been penetratingly known by intellect.
Another kind, bhikkhus, is that a bhikkhu in this Teaching has learnt the Teaching namely, Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella. That bhikkhu has taken in by hearing, constantly practised by reciting, borne in mind and penetratingly known by intellect. If (by any chance) that bhikkhu dies in forgetfulness, he will be reborn in a certain deva realm. There, in that person who is endowed with wellbeing in that deva realm, those dhammas are not clearly manifest, and a bhikkhu of high attainments in psychic power who has a well-practised mind does not expound to the deva audience the Teachings (of the Buddha), but a deva expounds the Teachings to the deva audience, and it occurs to that (forgetting) person thus; ‘The noble practice of the Teaching which I have practised before is the same as this dhamma (which this bhikkhu is expounding).’ Bhikkhus, arising of recollection may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly. Bhikkhus, if a conch-trumpet expert hears a sound of conch-trumpet on his long journey, he has no uncertainity in discerning whether it is the sound of a conch-trumpet or not, but he can decide with certainty that it is the sound of a conch-trumpet. In the same instance, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu has learnt Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella. That bhikkhu has taken in by hearing, constantly practised by reciting, borne in mind and penetratingly known by intellect. If (by any chance) that bhikkhu dies in forgetfulness, he will be reborn in a certain deva realm. There, in that person who is endowed with wellbeing in that deva realm, those dhammas are not clearly manifest; and a bhikkhu of high attainments in psychic power who has a well-practised mind does not expounds to the deva audience the Teachings, but a deva expounds the Teachings to the deva audience; it occurs to that (forgetting) person thus; ‘The noble practice of the Teaching which I have practised before is the same as this dhamma (which this bhikkhu is expounding).’ Bhikkhus, arising of recollection may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly. Bhikkhus, this is the third of the (definite) benefits accruing from what has been acquired by hearing, what has been constantly practised by reciting, what has been borne in mind, and what has been penetratingly known by intellect.
Another kind, bhikkhus, is that a bhikkhu in this Teaching has learnt the Teaching namely, Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella. That bhikkhu has taken in by hearing, constantly practised by reciting, borne in mind and penetratingly known by intellect. If (by any chance) that bhikkhu dies in forgetfulness, he will be reborn in a certain deva realm. There, in that person who is endowed with wellbeing in that deva realm, those dhammas are not clearly manifest; and a bhikkhu of high attainments in psychic power who has a well-practised mind, does not expound to the deva audience the Teachings (of the Buddha), and a deva does not expound the Teachings to the deva audience either; a deva who has been before him will remind him thus: “Friend deva, remember the noble practice of the Teaching what we have practised before. Oh, friend deva, you try to remember that! Oh, friend deva, you try to remember that.” Then, that (forgetting) deva replies, “Friend deva, I remember! Friend deva, I remember!” Bhikkhus, arising of recollection may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly.
Bhikkhus, two friend who have been playmates of childhood days in the dust at a certain time and in a certain place meet again, one asks the other, “Friend, do you remember this event in our childhood days?” and that friend says, “Friend, I do remember! Friend, I do remember!” In the same way, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu has learnt Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella. That bhikkhu has taken in by hearing, constantly practised by reciting, borne in mind and penetratingly known by intellect. If (by any chance) that bhikkhu dies in forgetfulness, he will be reborn in a certain deva realm. There, in that person who is endowed with wellbeing in that deva realm, those dhammas are not clearly manifest; and neither a bhikkhu of high attainments in psychic power who has a well-practised mind nor a deva does not expound to the deva audience, but the deva who has been before him will remind him thus: “Friend deva, remember the noble practice of the Teaching what we have practised before. Oh, friend deva, you try to remember that.” Then, that (forgetting) deva replies, “Friend deva, I remember! Friend deva, I remember!”
Bhikkhus, arising of recollection may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly. Bhikkhus, two friends who have been playmates of childhood days in the dust at a certain time and in a certain place meet again, one asks the other, “Friend, do you remember this event in our childhood days?” “Friend, I do remember! Friend, I do remember!”
Bhikkhus, arising of recollection may be slow in him, but he can realise the truth quickly. Bhikkhus, this is the fourth of the (definite) benefits accruing from what has been acquired by hearing, what has been constantly practised by reciting, what has been borne in mind, and what has been penetratingly known by intellect are these four kinds. (Thus said the Bhagava). (2)
Commentary (3)
The commentary on Sotanugata suttam given by the late Ven. Mogok Sayadaw, who was well versed in both suttam and abhidhamma, and a well documented arahat who had left Dhatu relics explained further that the acquiring of knowledge of the Sutta, Geyya, Veyyakarana, Gatha, Udana, Itivuttaka, Jataka, Abbhutadhamma and Vedella, in essence, is the discernment of anicca, dukkha, and anatta by hearing, reciting (sutamaya & cintamaya nana) and by vipassana insight (bhavanamaya nana), but not necessarily by higher supra-mundane magga nana.
It is definite that those who have learnt anicca, dukkha, anatta and have practised vipassana to discern these realities by sutamaya, cintamaya and bhavana maya nana would become enlightened in the next life should they be unsuccessful in perceiving nibanna in this life despite ardent effort.
Devas are more intelligent than humans and a slight incitement by any of the four ways mentioned in the sutta is enough for them to see the truth, (although devas are usually submerged in sensual pleasures and enlightenment is difficult for devas who have not practised Vipassana in the past life).
Research in the insight level required for such knowledge (6)
Since the discernment of anicca, dukkha and anatta can be acquired by learning (hearing, reciting) and by introspection through vipassana meditation, it is of interest to know which level of the insight wisdom would be the equivalent to procure sutamaya and cintamaya nana of “anicca, dukkha, and anatta.”
Research into the literature shows that the stage of insight into the causal relation between nama and rupa, which is associated with kinkhaviyarana visuddhi, purity of escape from doubt, can lead to the causal relationship between consciousness and corporeality, known as piccaya parigha-nana and the stage of dissolution of psycho-physical phenomena, sammasana-nana will ensure good rebirth and the attainment of the lower stage (cula) of sotapanna path, according to the Visuddhi-magga. (4)
The late Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw explained in the discourse on Sallekha sutta as follows. The joyful experience that results from this insight gives rise to abundant faith that in turn ensures rebirth in the higher worlds. In the Alagaddupama sutta of Majjima-nikaya the Buddha says: “All the persons who have faith in me are assured of rebirth in the deva-worlds.” The commentary explains this canonical passage as follows: “This saying of the Buddha refers to those who practise vipassana. These yogis have no fruits of Ariyan Path other than the vipassana practice and faith. They have only faith in the Buddha. While they are striving for vipassana insight, there wells up in them a certain kind of faith in the Buddha and his faith lands them in the deva-world as if it takes them by the hand and elevates them there.” Here the faith referred to in the Pali text is the strong faith that arises again as a result of vipassana insight. This faith usually wells up during the blip of lower level of insight (sammasana nana), but it is not yet manifest until the development of further insights. It shows itself clearly with the emergence of udayabbya insight. According to the commentary, the yogi who has this kind of faith is called cula-sotapanna. This seems to have been quoted by Visuddhimagga. (5)
REFERENCES
1) Chatta Sangayana CD-ROM Version 3. Vipassana Research Institute. Dhammagiri, Igatpuri 422 403, India.
2) English Translation of the Muula Pali Sutta (per kindness of Dr Htin Aung)
3) Commentary on the Sotanugata suttam, enlightenment in the second life. The discourse given in Amarapura, Burma on the 2nd September 1958 by the late Ven. Mogok Sayadaw.
4) The Progress of Insight (Visuddhinana-katha). A Modern Treatise on Buddhist Satipatthana Meditation. Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw, translated by Nyanaponika Thera 1994. ISBN 955-24-0090-2
5) A discourse on Sallekha Sutta. Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw of Burma 1981. Mahasi Vipassana Trust, Yangon, BURMA.
6) Insight levels for self-assessment in the Vipassana Practice, a research into the characteristics of the enlightenment process. Tin Htut, Sheffield, 2000.
Jack wrote:
Are you aware that there are several translations of this sutta? The one I quoted was by Payutto Bhikkhu. Still another one is by Bhikkhu Bodhi. There are many more. My reading is that all mean the same thing. Going on in the sutta the Buddha when asked about life after death and other metaphysical questions responded that that wasn't what he taught. Then he tells the story of the person who staggered into a village with a poisoned arrow stuck in his back. The villagers gathered round and started discussing who designed the arrow, etc. The Buddha said the important thing is to get the poison out not waste time on meaningless speculation. He said that we all have the poison of suffering in us right now and we should spend our time of getting it out. In another sutta, the Buddha said he only teaches suffering and the alleviation of suffering.
jack
You aren't going to be able to use the suttas to show the Buddha didn't speak of rebirth, when he does in so very many of them. An alternate translation of one sutta is nothing to hang your hat on.
===
I think readers should decide for themseleves the difference between what the Buddha taught to reduce suffering (which He said was the only thing he taught) and what else he mentioned that did not reduce suffering. He certainly mentioned rebirth as he mentioned other cultural artifacts of the time.
The second thing readers should decide is whether the translation I quoted differed in meaning from the other translation quoted.
Rebirth IS suffering. Again and again and again and again and again.
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
This is a bit off topic but something I was thinking about today:
Since devas live an extremely long time compared to humans doesn't that mean that there possibly(even likely) are devas who were around in the time of the Buddha and became enlightened? To me, that seems like it would be the best thing about being born in a heaven realm. The chance to learn under an enlightened being who actually learned from the Buddha first hand.
Jack wrote:
I think readers should decide for themseleves the difference between what the Buddha taught to reduce suffering
Namely, the 8-fold path. And there is the part about wrong view regarding rebirth.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Nicro wrote:This is a bit off topic but something I was thinking about today:
Since devas live an extremely long time compared to humans doesn't that mean that there possibly(even likely) are devas who were around in the time of the Buddha and became enlightened? To me, that seems like it would be the best thing about being born in a heaven realm. The chance to learn under an enlightened being who actually learned from the Buddha first hand.
This is the last straw for us if we do not get enlightened in this life. There are devas and brahmas who are enlightened and teach others in the heavenly realms. But the question is how are we going to ensure a rebirth as a deva?
Jack wrote:
I think readers should decide for themseleves the difference between what the Buddha taught to reduce suffering
Namely, the 8-fold path. And there is the part about wrong view regarding rebirth.
================
Kirk,
Is rebirth being part of wrong view found in the sutttas? It might be there but I haven't been able to find it. Please point me in the right direction. The formulations of right view as found in the 8-Fold Path in the references I've found are all similar to this as found in SN 45-8: "And what,monks, is right view? Knowledge of suffering, knowledge of the cause of suffering, knowledge of the cessation of suffering, knowledge of the way to cessation of suffering: this is called right view."
"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view. And what is wrong view? 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no priests or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is wrong view.
Yes MN 117 as I quoted earlier. But the Buddha puts an even stronger underline on it in MN 60 Apannaka Sutta: A Safe Bet. A couple points worth considering here: First - the reason "there is no next world" is wrong view, is because there actually is the next world! And second, the pragmatic argument he makes here, in favor of acting wisely even though one does not know for oneself what is true, of having doubt about what's true on the matter, is surely pretty useful for the many today who are skeptical about rebirth.
A2. "Because there actually is the next world, the view of one who thinks, 'There is no next world' is his wrong view. Because there actually is the next world, when he is resolved that 'There is no next world,' that is his wrong resolve. Because there actually is the next world, when he speaks the statement, 'There is no next world,' that is his wrong speech. Because there actually is the next world, when he is says that 'There is no next world,' he makes himself an opponent to those arahants who know the next world. Because there actually is the next world, when he persuades another that 'There is no next world,' that is persuasion in what is not true Dhamma. And in that persuasion in what is not true Dhamma, he exalts himself and disparages others. Whatever good habituation he previously had is abandoned, while bad habituation is manifested. And this wrong view, wrong resolve, wrong speech, opposition to the arahants, persuasion in what is not true Dhamma, exaltation of self, & disparagement of others: These many evil, unskillful activities come into play, in dependence on wrong view.
A3. "With regard to this, a wise person considers thus: 'If there is no next world, then — at the break-up of the body, after death — this venerable person has made himself safe. But if there is the next world, then this venerable person — on the break-up of the body, after death — will reappear in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. Even if we didn't speak of the next world, and there weren't the true statement of those venerable brahmans & contemplatives, this venerable person is still criticized in the here-&-now by the wise as a person of bad habits & wrong view: [2] one who holds to a doctrine of non-existence. If there really is a next world, then this venerable person has made a bad throw twice: in that he is criticized by the wise here-&-now, and in that — with the break-up of the body, after death — he will reappear in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. Thus this safe-bet teaching, when poorly grasped & poorly adopted by him, covers (only) one side, and leaves behind the possibility of the skillful.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
And second, the pragmatic argument he makes here, in favor of acting wisely even though one does not know for oneself what is true, of having doubt about what's true on the matter, is surely pretty useful for the many today who are skeptical about rebirth.