Zom wrote:Anyway not sure how this can probably make a being enlightened
It can make you enlightened, because when you come out of nirodha samapatti, you reflect, that "everything ended there", and because of that you see directly that there is no "me" at all. If everything disappears and nothing is left, then this is the direct realization of anatta. That is why nirodha-samapatti is so useful.
I agree. That was almost my exact experience. By "almost" I mean that I was already cognizant that there is "no me" before entering the state. So that wasn't new. What
was new was the realization that the mind could shut down completely, so that there was no experience (feeling or perception) of anything at all. Upon reflection, this told me that it was possible to bring the mind to utter cessation, which though not quite being equivalent to the awareness of nibbana in the present moment, nevertheless on reflection confirmed that this is possible.
It also helps one to be able to define nibbana beyond such mere meditative experiences. Whenever the mind is able to pay attention to phenomena without the distraction of
papanca (proliferation of thought) or other pre-conditioned biases in order to see the phenomenon as it actually is, and in complete dispassion, then this, too, is a viable demonstration of the effectiveness of nibbanic experience.
This discussion has helped clarify, in my mind at least, what difference is meant by the designations
cetovimutti (freedom by the mind) and
pannavimutti (freedom by wisdom). The latter is a direct experience, its realization being directly communicated within the affective mind having a direct effect on the destruction of passion, while the former seems more of a conceptual realization based upon the direct comprehension of the destruction of ignorance about the way things are, as is explained by Ven. Analayo in his book
Satipattana (pg. 89).
Zom wrote:By the way, I think that nirodha samapatti and "dwelling in nibbana" (like Buddha did sometimes for 7 days) these are the same things. Visuddhimagga and some suttas also point on that.
There's a bit of speculation here regarding what the Buddha might or might not have done for 7 days (if it's even true that that occurred, since we really do not
know). I'd have to agree with Nana's (Geoff) explanation on this: "...nevertheless is not the same as nibbāna. . . .Since there are arahants who haven't developed the formless attainments, [and] are incapable of attaining the cessation of apperception and feeling. [They] nevertheless,...are fully liberated through discernment."
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV