How common is stream entry?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:41 pm

Virgo wrote:]
You can think whatever you like.
There is some question about that?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Kenshou
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by Kenshou » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:57 pm

It's pretty easy to forget.
Really? Do thoughts not arise due to conditions...?

Mike
Oh you.

chandrafabian
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by chandrafabian » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:46 am

From Kevin,
Two points Zom.

First of all, from you quote above you seem to think that stream-entry may be very common. Yet, if one tells other that they are a stream winner, they will be attacked. You have verbally attacked all stream-winners that announce themselves in another thread. This seems to be the real trend. So if you ever meet one if you will only attack him or her?

Secondly, the phala moments happen directly after the magga moment, so sotapattimagga lasts for the length of only one citta, the citta that follows it is a sotapanna path moment-- the path moment lasts for less than one second before the fruition moments follow. In fact all of them together still last for less than a second.

Kevin
Dear friends, I agree with Kevin, it is in line with Abhidhamma and also in line with some meditation teacher's experience.

Mettacittena,
fabian

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Virgo
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by Virgo » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:19 am

Forget this post and this forum.

kevin

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:38 am

Virgo wrote:Forget this post and this forum.

kevin
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My forums: http://dhammasnippets.webs.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Sign up today.
Huh? We are supposed to forget this forum: My forums: http://dhammasnippets.webs.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Sign up today? Having looked at it, there is not much there to remember.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Goedert
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by Goedert » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:57 am

Virgo wrote:Forget this post and this forum.

kevin
399
He endures — unangered —
insult, assault, & imprisonment.
His army is strength;
his strength, forbearance:
he's what I call
a brahman.
400
Free from anger,
duties observed,
principled, with no overbearing pride,
trained, a 'last-body':
he's what I call
a brahman.

Not by claims,
by argumentation, or by eloquence,
is one a brahman.
Whoever has truth
& rectitude:
he is a pure one,
he, a brahman.
What's the use of claims,
you dullard?
What's the use of your speculations?
The tangle's inside you.
You comb the outside.

Adepted from:
393-394
Not by matted hair,
by clan, or by birth,
is one a brahman.
Whoever has truth
& rectitude:
he is a pure one,
he, a brahman.

What's the use of your matted hair,
you dullard?
What's the use of your deerskin cloak?
The tangle's inside you.
You comb the outside.

Dhammapada

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Virgo
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by Virgo » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:03 am

Goedert wrote:
Virgo wrote:Forget this post and this forum.

kevin
399
He endures — unangered —
insult, assault, & imprisonment.
His army is strength;
his strength, forbearance:
he's what I call
a brahman.
400
Free from anger,
duties observed,
principled, with no overbearing pride,
trained, a 'last-body':
he's what I call
a brahman.
Thanks for this quote. I did not have anger when I made my post. I had dislike.

Kevin F.

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:34 am

Virgo wrote: Thanks for this quote. I did not have anger when I made my post. I had dislike.

Kevin F.
Who knows what you were referring to.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

lojong1
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by lojong1 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:40 am

Virgo wrote:the phala moments happen directly after the magga moment, so sotapattimagga lasts for the length of only one citta, the citta that follows it is a sotapanna path moment-- the path moment lasts for less than one second before the fruition moments follow. In fact all of them together still last for less than a second.
Virgo wrote:So it is possible to give to someone as they have their path moment.
Kenshou wrote:Sounds like you'd have to have some really fast hands and either the iddhi to know another's mind or a person with it standing over your shoulder to let you know precisely when to give the offering. "Okay, put the food in the bowl.... now! Oh gosh, too slow, the magga-citta was already over." Defining path fruitions in this way makes giving an offering to a sotapatti-magga person into some kind psychic whack-a-mole.
Kenshou stole an external thought... :ban:
It is a funny picture, almost like there's a mistake somewhere.

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legolas
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by legolas » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:47 am

Kenshou wrote:
Virgo wrote:So it is possible to give to someone as they have their path moment.
Sounds like you'd have to have some really fast hands and either the iddhi to know another's mind or a person with it standing over your shoulder to let you know precisely when to give the offering. "Okay, put the food in the bowl.... now! Oh gosh, too slow, the magga-citta was already over."

Defining path fruitions in this way makes giving an offering to a sotapatti-magga person into some kind psychic whack-a-mole.
Never underestimate the contortions people will go through to prove an impossible view.

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:01 pm

legolas wrote:
Kenshou wrote:
Virgo wrote:So it is possible to give to someone as they have their path moment.
Sounds like you'd have to have some really fast hands and either the iddhi to know another's mind or a person with it standing over your shoulder to let you know precisely when to give the offering. "Okay, put the food in the bowl.... now! Oh gosh, too slow, the magga-citta was already over."

Defining path fruitions in this way makes giving an offering to a sotapatti-magga person into some kind psychic whack-a-mole.
Never underestimate the contortions people will go through to prove an impossible view.
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>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Vepacitta
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by Vepacitta » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:19 pm

People will want to be right all the time ...

Most people cling to views ...

V.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura

chownah
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by chownah » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:59 pm

I think that the idea of "slacking off" would not even cross a sotapanna's mind....except perhaps as a joke!!!!! I think the concept of "sotapanna" is based on a person reaching a point where it is "damn the iceburgs....full speed ahead!!!!!.....that's what conquering doubt about the dhamma does for you.....I guess....
chownah

lojong1
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by lojong1 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:08 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:
According to the Pali Commentary, six types of defilement would be abandoned by a Sotāpanna:
1.Envy
2.Jealousy
3.Hypocrisy
4.Fraud
5.Denigration
6.Domineering
it seems a rare person ideed who has given up these.
Abondoned, not just reduced? Which commentary? Is this commentary online?

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MingMehDorji
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Post by MingMehDorji » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:29 am

A sotapanna has unshakeable faith in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha. If a person would come along and say there is no Buddha, Dhamma or Sangha, and threatened to kill him if he did not agree, the stream enterer will not budge...he rather die. Stream enterers are not like worldlings who are dirt cheap abundant in the triple world. Besides they are unlikely to advertise "I am a stream enterer, know this" First we must get our facts right about Sotapannas, true ariyas.....so how common are stream enterers?

Hi,

To one who has grasped and realized Anatta, he will not react "He rather die". Even if the Citta were to arise with the thought, he will just observe and watch it dissolved and without reacting to it.

Just like a Bodhisattva will seek to become a Buddha if there's no more beings to be saved. But to a ripen conditions of Bodhisattva, whereby Anatta/Sunyata is well grasped, there's indifference as to being still suffer or not.

Achieving to this status is rare and need stringent cultivation of the 8 fold Noble path along with Vipaasana, where Wisdom and Compassion comes hand in hand.

Metta

Ming.

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