Dear all,
This question is exactly what it sounds like. Is there some drawback to a belief in god/s, or worse, a real danger?
What is meant by God here is anything that acts like an omnipotent creator, overseer, divine providence, or, and especially, commander.
While attacks on the idea of God itself (as fallacious, untenable, etc.) are appreciated, my main concern is on the danger of holding such a belief, that God exists.
Is belief in God/s dangerous?
- tiltbillings
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Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
If one thinks one is doing god's work, flying airplanes into buildings or putting to death unbelievers is not a problem.altar wrote:Dear all,
This question is exactly what it sounds like. Is there some drawback to a belief in god/s, or worse, a real danger?
What is meant by God here is anything that acts like an omnipotent creator, overseer, divine providence, or, and especially, commander.
While attacks on the idea of God itself (as fallacious, untenable, etc.) are appreciated, my main concern is on the danger of holding such a belief, that God exists.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
It seems to me that the danger comes from mitigating personal responsibility. When a person doesn't see their own responsibility then the different modes of suffering can be expected to increase.
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
There is a video talk of Ven. Punnaji that might be relevant to this question. See:altar wrote:Dear all,
This question is exactly what it sounds like. Is there some drawback to a belief in god/s, or worse, a real danger?
What is meant by God here is anything that acts like an omnipotent creator, overseer, divine providence, or, and especially, commander.
While attacks on the idea of God itself (as fallacious, untenable, etc.) are appreciated, my main concern is on the danger of holding such a belief, that God exists.
There is a sequence of it. This is 1/5 of them.
Edited: Putted the wrong video code, now its right.
Last edited by Goedert on Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
When you look back through history and the amount of bloodshed and violence in the name of god and religion, it is blantantly obvious that it is dangerous. Crusades ring a bell?
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
Our minds reinforce the idea of self. In other words, our mental process keeps recreating the idea. The goal in our practice is to stop reinforcing this idea and see that there is no self. Believing in a God as a creator leads to the believe that God created "us", created this "self". Therefore it makes the idea of "no self" much more difficult to understand, far more difficult to accept, and near impossible to let go.altar wrote:Dear all,
This question is exactly what it sounds like. Is there some drawback to a belief in god/s, or worse, a real danger?
What is meant by God here is anything that acts like an omnipotent creator, overseer, divine providence, or, and especially, commander.
While attacks on the idea of God itself (as fallacious, untenable, etc.) are appreciated, my main concern is on the danger of holding such a belief, that God exists.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
One component of monotheism that I consider "dangerous" to some extent is this: all too often, the concept of a god can become a "god of the gaps" - a convenient filler to plug up holes in knowledge. Don't know why something happens the way it does? The answer is God of course. It's an easy excuse for lazy folks to stop seeking. I sometimes wonder if we'd have a cure for cancer by now, or a unified theory of gravity, had we not had two millenia of monotheism to act as a comfy mattress for the majority of the population to rest their laurels on.
- tiltbillings
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Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
OcTavO wrote: "god of the gaps"
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>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
I don't think it's a stretch to say that God's followers have killed more people than cancer.
"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
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Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
How would one come up with reasonable numbers for either side, cancer deaths/kill the infidels? Such numbers have to be very large, indeed.Tex wrote:I don't think it's a stretch to say that God's followers have killed more people than cancer.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
That talk never gets old. Thanks for posting, Goedert.Goedert wrote:There is a video talk of Ven. Punnaji that might be relevant to this question. See:
There is a sequence of it. This is 1/5 of them.
Edited: Putted the wrong video code, now its right.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
There's a very good section in one of Ledi Sayadaw's dipanis (I can';t remember which one right now) published under the title of 'Manuals of Dhamma' where he quotes a sutta where the Buddha outlines the dangers for one who has the view of a creator being. If I remember correctly, one who holds such a view holds a wrong view regarding kamma and consequently performs every variety of unwholesome act believing it to be wholesome and ends up, after death, in a state of perdition in one of the lower realms.
Whether or not you personally believe in the lower realms, I think its also very true as a metaphor for the quality of mind and life following gross unwholesome activity.
Sorry i can't find a quote for you right now as I'm trying to get out the door.
kind regards
Ben
Whether or not you personally believe in the lower realms, I think its also very true as a metaphor for the quality of mind and life following gross unwholesome activity.
Sorry i can't find a quote for you right now as I'm trying to get out the door.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- retrofuturist
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- Contact:
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
Greetings,
I know someone who used to live a troubled life who has been "born again" through her new-found belief in God. I have no doubt the mindstates she has now are more often based on wisdom, generosity and lovingkindess than they would have been several years ago. It's not how I'd go about personal transformation myself... but if the end result yields a positive correlation to those things which the Buddha spoke highly of, then it doesn't seem appropriate to give a blanket response that belief in God is dangerous.
Metta,
Retro.
I know someone who used to live a troubled life who has been "born again" through her new-found belief in God. I have no doubt the mindstates she has now are more often based on wisdom, generosity and lovingkindess than they would have been several years ago. It's not how I'd go about personal transformation myself... but if the end result yields a positive correlation to those things which the Buddha spoke highly of, then it doesn't seem appropriate to give a blanket response that belief in God is dangerous.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
The drawback/danger is all in the ignorance of the person. Belief in *any* sovereign has drawbacks/dangers - doesn't have to be a diety - could be a king - queen - parliment - senate - pope - priest - preacher - teacher - spouse - peer. Anytime you hand someone else the reins, the potential for drawbacks/danger exists in proportion to the ignorance.altar wrote:Is there some drawback to a belief in god/s, or worse, a real danger?
What is meant by God here is anything that acts like an omnipotent creator, overseer, divine providence, or, and especially, commander.
Metta
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Is belief in God/s dangerous?
Well, potentially dangerous. Of course, things are never black and white, except when they are black and white.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
I know someone who used to live a troubled life who has been "born again" through her new-found belief in God. I have no doubt the mindstates she has now are more often based on wisdom, generosity and lovingkindess than they would have been several years ago. It's not how I'd go about personal transformation myself... but if the end result yields a positive correlation to those things which the Buddha spoke highly of, then it doesn't seem appropriate to give a blanket response that belief in God is dangerous.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723