Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

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tiltbillings
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:38 pm

Journey wrote:You are more than welcome.
I added a thought, but you were too quick for me, and had replied by the time I posted it. My thought that was added:

Perhaps you could ask Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi what he objects to with regard to Christopher Titmuss's views, after all it was the Venerable that brought up Christopher Titmuss's name, not Wallace. ( see page 3 of the letter ).
Just a thought.

Thanks for your time.
But it was Wallace's criticism of Titmuss that Ven Bodhi referenced.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Will
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Will » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:38 pm

Another point of interest to me was when Bhikkhu Bodhi said the division of the 8-fold path into three divisions was only found in one place in the Tipitaka. Thus he has dropped using that and now thinks of the 8-fold path as a unity.
BB 2: First of all, I should state that I recently realized that the common way of dividing
up the eight factors of the Noble Eightfold Path into three categories--repeated so often in
popular books on Buddhism (including some that I wrote in my days of juvenile
innocence)--occurs only once in the four main Nikāyas. Moreover, this one occurrence is
in a sutta spoken by the bhikkhuni Dhammadinnā, not in one spoken by the Buddha.
True, the discourse is said to have been subsequently approved by the Buddha, but it
wasn’t spoken by him; and this method of imprimatur could be the way the Sangha
sought to authorize a text composed sometime after the parinibbāna, as I suspect is the
case with this one. I now prefer to take the eightfold path as an organic whole. We might
be able to isolate the three ethical factors, but the contemplative ones, I believe, should all
be taken together, without segregating them rigidly into distinct samādhi and paññā
groups.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of selflessness.

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mikenz66
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:59 pm

Hi, Journey,

Yes, sorry, it's easy for me to get the quotes mixed up. I've fixed my original post.

Thanks again for your input.

Mike
Journey wrote: Hi Mike,
Just to be clear, the above quote about Alan Wallace needing to drop the sniper business, etc - ( Journey wrote: ) that didn't come from me.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:30 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Hi, Journey,

Yes, sorry, it's easy for me to get the quotes mixed up. I've fixed my original post.
Actually, I think I am the one who originally messed it up. It sometimes gets a bit confusing with all the brackets and slashes.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

alan
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by alan » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:09 am

Maybe it was stuff like this that Wallace was criticizing?http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Without- ... 799&sr=1-2

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by jcsuperstar » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:18 am

probably not since that is mahyana stuff, modern vipassana would be grounded in Theravada.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Journey
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Journey » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:28 pm

alan wrote:Maybe it was stuff like this that Wallace was criticizing?http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Without- ... 799&sr=1-2
Alan, right in the beginning of Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi's response to Wallace - [see link below] - he mentions appreciating Wallace's position and thanks Wallace for a tape he had made saying that he would play the side where Wallace criticized Batchelor's view, when he met a monk who would lean toward Batchelor's view.

http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files ... ndence.pdf

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tiltbillings
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:53 pm

Journey wrote:
alan wrote:Maybe it was stuff like this that Wallace was criticizing?http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Without- ... 799&sr=1-2
Alan, right in the beginning of Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi's response to Wallace - [see link below] - he mentions appreciating Wallace's position and thanks Wallace for a tape he had made saying that he would play the side where Wallace criticized Batchelor's view, when he met a monk who would lean toward Batchelor's view.

http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files ... ndence.pdf
I am not sure the point of this comment, but Wallace in this exchange does not acquit himself very well. On page 15-17 Ven Bodhi responds at length to Wallace's question about the wholesome aspect of bare attention, which Wallace, as if he had not read it at all (or anything else Ven Bodhi said in the lead up to this), then goes on with the silly Green Beret/sniper business again to which Ven Bodhi responds: I believe I already covered the qualms expressed in “AW 4” with the following words in “BB 4”: and then Ven Bodhi repeats part of his answer already given and expands even further on his point. Wallace does not even acknowledge that he missed what Ven Bodhi point's is, much less correct his point of view. So much for Wallace.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

PeterB
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by PeterB » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:20 pm

Journey wrote:
alan wrote:Maybe it was stuff like this that Wallace was criticizing?http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Without- ... 799&sr=1-2
Alan, right in the beginning of Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi's response to Wallace - [see link below] - he mentions appreciating Wallace's position and thanks Wallace for a tape he had made saying that he would play the side where Wallace criticized Batchelor's view, when he met a monk who would lean toward Batchelor's view.

http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files ... ndence.pdf


The view he is referring to is Bachelor's view that monasticism would play only a marginal role in western Buddhism..
A view incidentally that is shared by more than a few monks...

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bazzaman
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by bazzaman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:02 am

.
Last edited by bazzaman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Atāṇo loko anabhissaro...

Reductor
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Reductor » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:29 am

bazzaman wrote:Please excuse my presumption for jumping in at this late stage with a possibly irrelevant reference. But Bhikkhu Bodhi's 1997 review of "Buddhism Without Beliefs" in the J.B.E. was one that I found very interesting.
In case anyone hasn't read it ... :
http://www.buddhistethics.org/5/batch1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That was interesting Bazzaman. Thanks.

PeterB
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by PeterB » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:03 am

Well he ( Bhikkhu Bodhi ) would say that wouldnt he ?

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Journey
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Journey » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:51 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Journey wrote:
alan wrote:Maybe it was stuff like this that Wallace was criticizing?http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Without- ... 799&sr=1-2
Alan, right in the beginning of Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi's response to Wallace - [see link below] - he mentions appreciating Wallace's position and thanks Wallace for a tape he had made saying that he would play the side where Wallace criticized Batchelor's view, when he met a monk who would lean toward Batchelor's view.

http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files ... ndence.pdf
I am not sure the point of this comment,
I was responding to alan, that was the point of my commenting. :thinking: uh hope that helps you?
Last edited by Journey on Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Journey
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by Journey » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:51 pm

bazzaman wrote:Please excuse my presumption for jumping in at this late stage with a possibly irrelevant reference. But Bhikkhu Bodhi's 1997 review of "Buddhism Without Beliefs" in the J.B.E. was one that I found very interesting.
In case anyone hasn't read it ... :
http://www.buddhistethics.org/5/batch1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks, Bazzman.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:38 pm

But Bhikkhu Bodhi's 1997 review of "Buddhism Without Beliefs" in the J.B.E. was one that I found very interesting.
Discussion of this would be an interesting new thread. An on topic discussion here would be Wallace's missing or ignoring the point of Ven Bodhi's description of bare attention.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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