the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:09 am

tiltbillings wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:Honestly clw, who do you hold in higher esteem, yourself or the Buddha, honestly now???
You need to go way back in this gawdforsaken thread. Craig worked very hard to interpret any suggestion of rebirth in the suttas as being figurative, referring only rebirth from moment to moment sort of thing. And seemingly no evidence could count against such an interpretation. And in this he is supposedly following Buddhadasa point of view.

And what evidence would persuade you that rebirth is a fools doctrine?

I joke of course, I know nothing would persuade you otherwise :) you have too much invested in it


Too be fair you did give a near accurate account of my posts :smile:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:14 am

honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:20 am

lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.

Once again, you would be far better arguing against me by using logical argument and sutta quotes. Until then you just stand there, holding an empty cup.


Emotional wailings mean nothing to me I'm afraid.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:25 am

lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.

Tell me, how do you understand ditthi (views)?
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:25 am

lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.
The question is, then, why bother? It does get rather fruitless sometimes arguing with the anti-rebirthers. The only value I can see in such debates is in helping clarifying one's one thinking on a subject.

Read a few pages forward and backwards from here:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 320#p15747

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 380#p16211
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:27 am

clw_uk wrote:
I joke of course, I know nothing would persuade you otherwise you have too much invested in it
You have iddhis now? You have no idea if I believe in or do not believe in rebirth.

Too be fair you did give a near accurate account of my posts :
Of course.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:30 am

tiltbillings wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
I joke of course, I know nothing would persuade you otherwise you have too much invested in it
You have iddhis now? You have no idea if I believe in or do not believe in rebirth.

No but when in your past posts you say that "something is lost without rebirth" (paraphrased), this gives a hint
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:31 am

tiltbillings wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.
The question is, then, why bother? It does get rather fruitless sometimes arguing with the anti-rebirthers. The only value I can see in such debates is in helping clarifying one's one thinking on a subject.

Read a few pages forward and backwards from here:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 320#p15747

A straw man tilt :shock:

"Anti-rebirther"!!! Where?????
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:34 am

clw_uk wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.
The question is, then, why bother? It does get rather fruitless sometimes arguing with the anti-rebirthers. The only value I can see in such debates is in helping clarifying one's one thinking on a subject.

Read a few pages forward and backwards from here:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 320#p15747
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 380#p16211


A straw man tilt :shock:

"Anti-rebirther"!!! Where?????
So, you now believe in rebirth, not just the figurative version you have been championing for so long here?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:36 am

Tilt me old man have I not stated before, it's not about rebirth or no rebirth
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:40 am

lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.
Actually, start reading from here on: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 380#p16211

Craig picks this up here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 420#p16735

and just in case you don't get to this: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 440#p16758 It is worth a read.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:41 am

clw_uk wrote:Tilt me old man have I not stated before, it's not about rebirth or no rebirth
If you say so.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:53 am

tiltbillings wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.
Actually, start reading from here on: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 380#p16211

Craig picks this up here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 420#p16735

and just in case you don't get to this: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 440#p16758 It is worth a read.


Notice that someone changes ditthi, while another remains fixed and immobile ;)
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:00 am

clw_uk wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:honestly tilt, it seems like in this and other threads he's more interested in furthering his own views, than the Buddha's views, hence my question. As I've pointed out before he quotes Buddhist scholars only when they seem to back his arguement, and has little interest in following anything else they say.
Actually, start reading from here on: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 380#p16211

Craig picks this up here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 420#p16735

and just in case you don't get to this: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 440#p16758 It is worth a read.


Notice that someone changes ditthi, while another remains fixed and immobile
I am glad you recognize your fixed, immobile line of thought. You have someone as learned and practiced as Ajahn Dhammanando neatly demolishing your position, and you just go blithely on as if nothing was really said at all that would contradict your point of view. It is an amazing sight to behold.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:03 am

You mean when ajahn demolished a poition I had nearly 4 years ago? Really relevant :/
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: one_awakening, Robert123 and 80 guests