Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 pm
The deathless isn’t the cessation of the “concept” of death. It’s the cessation of the world. You still seem to be taking the aggregates as being real and existing things.
it is. Although this is difficult to accept for many people. This is a metaphysical issue affecting the own position in the existence, and many people is not able to confront. Probably in ancient times the people was more courageous.
It belongs to that type of questions like knowing if one is dreaming his own life; we don't have a way to know it neither any scientific guy can tells
nothing about these doubts.
The problem of the individuation of the self and the arising of the world, it's a similar issue. And Rebirth is a logical necessity inside that, still more in the Buddha treaching. There is no need to become a pali miner because the issue is not so complicated. This is what what we read in example in SN 12.65 :
"From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth... 'Name-&-form exists when what exists? From what as a requisite condition is there name-&-form?' From my appropriate attention there came the breakthrough of discernment: 'Name-&-form exists when consciousness exists. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.' Then the thought occurred to me, 'Consciousness exists when what exists? From what as a requisite condition comes consciousness?' From my appropriate attention there came the breakthrough of discernment: 'Consciousness exists when name-&-form exists. From name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness.'"
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
we can change "name-form" by "the world" or "reality", and that's all.
This is dependence going until the end. The birth of both "my self" and "this world" are a dependent event. And logically, in the same way my death and the vanishing of this world would be a dependent event. It doesn't care the "physical" birth or birth in this very moment. The physical scope is no relevant because our senses are kamma and our mind-images are nama. For that reason inside the Suttas there are beings arising without body, or with fine rupa, and etc with a blurred physical scope
Materialist inhabits in a limited mind and the non-rebith is a complete non-sense for the logics. This non-sense is important because it draws those metaphysical limits to them. However, I wonder if that lack of logics can be close to that strange pathology suffered by some few people, who don't want to go to sleep because they fear at the end there is some "nothingness" or a "definitive darkness" or any other unrational invention.
One should be compassionate with the materialist people. Because there is fear and dukkha behind the intellectual chattering empty of causality and logics. And it should be well rooted, because even when some find the Buddha teaching with a solid metaphysical logical explanation, still they prefer keeping the non-rational.
Perhaps for that reason many materialists and secularists are so obsessed in ruling and modelling the world. They should take care of those limits of their own prison. Although they repeats "freedom" many times, which is funny.
