Gender equality in premodern societies wasn't as rare as was once thought. We know know that in many premodern societies women and men had different roles and contributed differently to society but were still considered equal, including in leadership capabilities.Heavenstorm wrote:Besides, gender equality is a rare occurrence. Rarely are females being treated as equal in the history of humans
Women can't become Buddhas?
- pink_trike
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
- Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
I would be interested in reading about such societies. I love history. Where would you point someone for a starting place, pink_trike?pink_trike wrote:Gender equality in premodern societies wasn't as rare as was once thought. We know know that in many premodern societies women and men had different roles and contributed differently to society but were still considered equal, including in leadership capabilities.Heavenstorm wrote:Besides, gender equality is a rare occurrence. Rarely are females being treated as equal in the history of humans
Thanks
Drolma
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
Sorry, besides Ancient Persia, Egypt and perhaps Greece, I rarely read how women were respected in the history, especially in the medieval times in China, India, Europe and Middle East as various religions and philosophical systems located there clearly held man as being the superior gender.pink_trike wrote:Gender equality in premodern societies wasn't as rare as was once thought. We know know that in many premodern societies women and men had different roles and contributed differently to society but were still considered equal, including in leadership capabilities.Heavenstorm wrote:Besides, gender equality is a rare occurrence. Rarely are females being treated as equal in the history of humans
Well, this is a Theravada forum, what do you expect?What I get from this discussion thread is that the Theravada framing of a worldview is too constricting for me.
"Dharma ending age" is also widely recognized fact among the Mahayana circle. Its irony that you made a big claim about your preference of Mahayana, yet ignorant of that fact.Also the literalization of a the Buddhist version of the "end times" of a Dharma ending age appears to be a mythological comfort blanket. Anyone who thinks that today there is less Dharma present in the world compared to 500 or 1000 years ago seems to be living in a fantasy world to me. Today the Dharma is flowing around the awareness of the entire planet and is certainly not "ending."
Dharma ending age got nothing to do with the availability of Dharma, you have no idea what you are talking about. There is a general consensus that the fruits of Dharma practice is diminishing every 500 or 1000 year. Given the comparison between the number of recognized Arahants found during the first few hundred years of Buddhism in India and those found in the present times. It is easily concluded that attaining Arahantship in this times are very difficult if not impossible. I don't think you will find any Theravadins that disagree with that.
[EDIT: Aggressive ad-homonim attacks removed... there is no need for them. Retro.]The idea that female equality is somehow tied to the Dharma ending age and the ending of Buddha teaching in the world is to me ignorant and superstitious and just the rationalization of male Buddhists who want to keep their power and control over women and use theor rationalizations of the Suttas to keep their power. It is no better than the Catholic church using the Bible to rationalize their patriarchial power over society.
Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
[EDIT: Examples of perceived Wrong Speech removed... if you have objections to posts, please use the Report Post function rather than side-tracking conversation with complaints about them. Thank you. Retro.]
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."
— SN 45.8
Five keys to right speech
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?
"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."
— AN 5.198
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."
— SN 45.8
Five keys to right speech
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?
"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."
— AN 5.198
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
This thread has no need of "Dharma police" as already stated earlier,thank you very much.
Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
Dear members
Please return to topic.
Kind regards
Ben
Please return to topic.
Kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- jcsuperstar
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
here lays your slipperly slope... you dont want to accept some parts of the canon cause you dont like what it says, yet youre fully willing to throw other parts at people because it helps you. now what if one were to claim those right speech parts were added by monks why didnt want free and open discussion, that it was all some ancient sri lankan conspiracy?Annabel wrote:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."
— SN 45.8
Five keys to right speech
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?
"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."
— AN 5.198
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
Re: Women can't be enlightened?
Thankyou, kowtaaia.kowtaaia wrote:Ya think? Of course, the Buddha never said that. Awakening has nothing to do with gender.Elohim wrote:... Perhaps the Buddha himself never said that women are inferior to men...
Out of all the myths that we humans share amidst each other - for example, separation, selfishness, money - this has got to be one of the most harmful for spiritual seekers.
It is picked up and spread sometimes within Buddhist schools, with some traditions more proponents of it than others.
Still, we are fortunate to find that those who practice "well" as the Buddha taught, seem to get over their gender hangups and immature concepts like "inferiority" soon. In the meantime, there's always Fox News to add to the set of strong beliefs as well, for those that are into this sort of thing.
- DNS
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
References to Right Speech in this thread are probably off-topic, but in my opinion it can be okay in some circumstances to use some passages from some books while not giving as much weight to others. This can be done if there is a science to it, for example, taking the early texts as the most important, see:jcsuperstar wrote:here lays your slipperly slope... you dont want to accept some parts of the canon cause you dont like what it says, yet youre fully willing to throw other parts at people because it helps you. now what if one were to claim those right speech parts were added by monks why didnt want free and open discussion, that it was all some ancient sri lankan conspiracy?Annabel wrote: "And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."
— SN 45.8
Five keys to right speech
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?
"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."
— AN 5.198
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=530" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Chronology of the Pali Canon)
But, if there is no science to it and one just 'picks and chooses' what one likes and does not like, then that would be the so-called 'cherry-picking.'
The Anguttara, Samyutta, Digha, and Majjhima Nikayas are clearly early texts and contain much repetition throughout.
Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
Heavenstorm,Heavenstorm wrote:This thread has no need of "Dharma police" as already stated earlier,thank you very much.
please understand this as a plea and appeal to the best in all of us: more kindness and harmlessness with each other every day, myself included very much so.
- retrofuturist
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
Hello. Retro,
If ad hom. attacks are not scolded as off- topic, please also allow a respectful reply and explanation what was meant.
After that, you guys can discuss til the cows come home, since I am out of this thread.
Thank you.
Annabel
I can accept most parts of the dhamma without thinking twice. They just "click".
With others, something doesn't seem to sit right with me and disturbs my peace of mind or seems to make no sense.
When I ask inconvenient questions about those parts, such as women can't be samma sambuddhas, then only, because I am struggling to understand them and hope to get patient and kind explanations.
Anybody replying to me in this manner will help and support me immensely.
I may not be happy with replies right away, so bear with me please. ....
So thanks to you all in advance when I express myself, and thanks for all replies that I can accept with joy because they are kind and don't shame me, even when we disagree.
But with this thread I am done.
My questions remain, in a worse way than before.
Bye,
Annabel
If ad hom. attacks are not scolded as off- topic, please also allow a respectful reply and explanation what was meant.
After that, you guys can discuss til the cows come home, since I am out of this thread.
Thank you.
Annabel
Hello, jcsuperstar,here lays your slipperly slope... you dont want to accept some parts of the canon cause you dont like what it says, yet youre fully willing to throw other parts at people because it helps you. now what if one were to claim those right speech parts were added by monks why didnt want free and open discussion, that it was all some ancient sri lankan conspiracy?
I can accept most parts of the dhamma without thinking twice. They just "click".
With others, something doesn't seem to sit right with me and disturbs my peace of mind or seems to make no sense.
When I ask inconvenient questions about those parts, such as women can't be samma sambuddhas, then only, because I am struggling to understand them and hope to get patient and kind explanations.
Anybody replying to me in this manner will help and support me immensely.
I may not be happy with replies right away, so bear with me please. ....
So thanks to you all in advance when I express myself, and thanks for all replies that I can accept with joy because they are kind and don't shame me, even when we disagree.
But with this thread I am done.
My questions remain, in a worse way than before.
Bye,
Annabel
Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
I disagree. I know many other Theravadins who disagree.Heavenstorm wrote:It is easily concluded that attaining Arahantship in this times are very difficult if not impossible. I don't think you will find any Theravadins that disagree with that.
Re: Women can't be enlightened?
Where there is material development, male power will predominate because of the need for the military. Female power will never arise again because it was female power that gave birth to materialism and the need for the military to protect it. If the modern world is destroyed in a nuclear war and humanity must begin again, female power will rise again. Just as women are required to look after young children, so are women needed to give direction to a growing world.Heavenstorm wrote:As proven that its only in the Dharma ending times like now, female power will rise and surpass the guys.
- retrofuturist
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Re: Women can't become Buddhas?
Greetings,
It looks like the potential for us to discuss this matter from a Theravadin perspective has been exhausted.... hence the lack of recent posts actually related in any way to the topic at hand.
This thread will now be closed - thank you all for your participation.
Metta,
Retro.
It looks like the potential for us to discuss this matter from a Theravadin perspective has been exhausted.... hence the lack of recent posts actually related in any way to the topic at hand.
This thread will now be closed - thank you all for your participation.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."