What is this "heart" that is released?

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Wind
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What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by Wind » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:31 am

I hear it being mentioned in the suttas as well as referenced by Ajahn Mun regarding the heart being released. What's this "heart" that is released when one is liberated?

PeterB
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by PeterB » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:10 am

Beats me, Wind...Could you give the Pali term for what you are looking for ?

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gavesako
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by gavesako » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:15 am

See http://mettarefuge.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... ha-nature/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Freedom from Buddha Nature

by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

“What is the mind? The mind isn’t ‘is’ anything.”—Ajaan Chah

“The mind is neither good nor evil, but it’s what knows good and knows evil. It’s what does good and does evil. And it’s what lets go of good and lets go of evil.”—Ajaan Lee
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Virgo
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by Virgo » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Wind wrote:I hear it being mentioned in the suttas as well as referenced by Ajahn Mun regarding the heart being released. What's this "heart" that is released when one is liberated?
Hi Wind. It is said that the "heart" is released because certain fetters within the mind are eradicated or lessened at each successive stage of enlightenment.

At the first stage, the fetter of self-view, as well as the fetter of doubt in the Buddha's teaching, and the fetter of clinging to rites and rituals as pertinent to practice are uprooted.

"Heart" is another way of saying "mind" in many Buddhist countries. So the mind is released. It is liberated, because it is liberated of ditthi and the other fetters. Sariputta as well as the Buddha and others call this "bliss" and "pleasant". Why? Because nibbana become the object of the citta. And at times when nibbana is not the object of the citta, there should be knowledge of the absence of the fetters that have been removed at that point.

Kevin
The Hunger Site

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meindzai
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by meindzai » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:46 pm

Wind wrote:I hear it being mentioned in the suttas as well as referenced by Ajahn Mun regarding the heart being released. What's this "heart" that is released when one is liberated?
If I get it right, Ajahns tend to use the word "heart" and "mind" interchangably for "citta."

As was mentioned in the "Buddha Nature" thread, it might be worth noting not to reify things like "heart/mind/citta" too much.

-M

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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by PeterB » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:47 pm

meindzai wrote:
Wind wrote:I hear it being mentioned in the suttas as well as referenced by Ajahn Mun regarding the heart being released. What's this "heart" that is released when one is liberated?
If I get it right, Ajahns tend to use the word "heart" and "mind" interchangably for "citta."

As was mentioned in the "Buddha Nature" thread, it might be worth noting not to reify things like "heart/mind/citta" too much.

-M
:thumbsup:

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jcsuperstar
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by jcsuperstar » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:19 pm

:goodpost:

if you spend enough time talking to Asian people you'll notice little things, one is when they speak of their mind they point to their heart/chest
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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mikenz66
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:26 pm

meindzai wrote: If I get it right, Ajahns tend to use the word "heart" and "mind" interchangably for "citta."
As I understand it, in everyday Thai (and other Asian languages) there are not different words for what in English we would call "heart" (the "emotional mind") and "mind" (the "thinking mind").

Even in English we speak of "learning it by heart"...

Metta
Mike
Last edited by mikenz66 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gavesako
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by gavesako » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:53 pm

Even in the Pali it occurs, see PTS dictionary:

-- With citta at Sn p. 32 (hadayaŋ te phalessāmi "I shall break your heart"); hadayaŋ phalitaŋ a broken heart J i.65; DhA i.173. chinna h id. J v.180. hadayassa santi calmness of h. A v.64 sq. hadayā hadayaŋ aññāya tacchati M i.32. h. nibbāyi the heart (i. e. anger) cooled down J vi.349; h. me avakaḍḍhati my heart is distraught J iv.415. -- duhadaya bad -- hearted J vi.469.
Vism 255; SnA 116. -- gata [˚ngata] gone to the heart, learnt by heart Miln 10 -- gama [˚ngama] heart -- stirring, pleasant, agreeable D i.4; iii.173; M i.345; A ii.209; v.205; Vin iii.77 Nd1 446; Dhs. 1343; DA i.75. -- pariḷāha heart-glow Miln 318. -- phālana bursting of the heart J i.282 --

:heart:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:45 pm

Greetings,
Virgo wrote:"Heart" is another way of saying "mind" in many Buddhist countries.
Yes, and so long as it's consistently translated as one or the other, then it's quite easy to follow.

What I do find perplexing is when both 'heart' and 'mind' are used. The latest example of this that I've come across has been in Jack Kornfield's "A Path With Heart", which seems to separate mind as some kind of 'mental center' and heart as some kind of 'emotional centre', complicated further by him incorporating the notion of chakras into his explanations. Personally I don't like the use of both at once, because it creates a point of division between emotion and the intellect, as if the two are not intricately connected in their own right.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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cooran
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by cooran » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:17 am

Hello all,

This may be of assistance:

hadaya-vatthu ~ 'heart as physical base' of mental life.
The heart, according to the commentaries as well as to the general Buddhist tradition, forms the physical base (vatthu) of consciousness.
In the canonical texts, however, even in the Abhidhamma Pitaka, no such base is ever localized, a fact which seems to have first been discovered by Shwe Zan Aung (Compendium of Philosophy, pp. 277ff.).
In the Patth. we find repeatedly only the passage: "That material thing based on which mind-element and mind-consciousness element function" (yam rūpam nissāya manodhātu ca mano-viññāna-dhātu ca vattanti, tam rūpam).
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/g_ ... vatthu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by PeterB » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:53 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Virgo wrote:"Heart" is another way of saying "mind" in many Buddhist countries.
Yes, and so long as it's consistently translated as one or the other, then it's quite easy to follow.

What I do find perplexing is when both 'heart' and 'mind' are used. The latest example of this that I've come across has been in Jack Kornfield's "A Path With Heart", which seems to separate mind as some kind of 'mental center' and heart as some kind of 'emotional centre', complicated further by him incorporating the notion of chakras into his explanations. Personally I don't like the use of both at once, because it creates a point of division between emotion and the intellect, as if the two are not intricately connected in their own right.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Quite. Thats what my laboured irony above was meaning to convey.
:anjali:

PeterB
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by PeterB » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:54 am

cooran wrote:Hello all,

This may be of assistance:

hadaya-vatthu ~ 'heart as physical base' of mental life.
The heart, according to the commentaries as well as to the general Buddhist tradition, forms the physical base (vatthu) of consciousness.
In the canonical texts, however, even in the Abhidhamma Pitaka, no such base is ever localized, a fact which seems to have first been discovered by Shwe Zan Aung (Compendium of Philosophy, pp. 277ff.).
In the Patth. we find repeatedly only the passage: "That material thing based on which mind-element and mind-consciousness element function" (yam rūpam nissāya manodhātu ca mano-viññāna-dhātu ca vattanti, tam rūpam).
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/g_ ... vatthu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
Excellent and to the point as usual.
:anjali:

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tiltbillings
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:07 am

PeterB wrote:
cooran wrote:Hello all,

This may be of assistance:

hadaya-vatthu ~ 'heart as physical base' of mental life.
The heart, according to the commentaries as well as to the general Buddhist tradition, forms the physical base (vatthu) of consciousness.
In the canonical texts, however, even in the Abhidhamma Pitaka, no such base is ever localized, a fact which seems to have first been discovered by Shwe Zan Aung (Compendium of Philosophy, pp. 277ff.).
In the Patth. we find repeatedly only the passage: "That material thing based on which mind-element and mind-consciousness element function" (yam rūpam nissāya manodhātu ca mano-viññāna-dhātu ca vattanti, tam rūpam).
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/g_ ... vatthu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris


Excellent and to the point as usual.
:anjali:
Buddhist Dictionary
Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines,
by NYANATILOKA[ http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/dic_idx.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ] is an excellent resource for Theravada terms and concepts.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Wind
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Re: What is this "heart" that is released?

Post by Wind » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:32 am

Thanks everyone. Here I found a sutta that used the phrase "my heart was released". Can someone post the Pali version for me so I can see what word was being translated as 'heart'?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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