What is Dhammakaya?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
sm2019
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:14 am

What is Dhammakaya?

Post by sm2019 »

According to Wikipedia, The Dhammakaya tradition is a Thai Buddhist tradition and is distinguished from other Thai Buddhist traditions by its teachings on the practice of Dhammakaya meditation, a method which scholars have connected to the Yogavacara tradition. The Dhammakaya tradition is known for its teaching that there is a "true self" connected with Nirvana, a belief that is rejected by the majority of the Thai Theravada community, who have criticized this as contradicting the Buddhist doctrine of anatta (not-self).

I just learned that this tradition is not good and that there are many people speaking ill of them. Could anyone clarify more on the subject and talk a little about your experience with this tradition? It is the first time I hear about it.
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Here is a paper on the esoteric teachings of Wat Phra Dhammakāya. I would highly recommend reading this article. It is not too jargon-filled IMO.

Wat Dhammakāya almost took over the Thai State-Sangha. They are becoming a dangerous element to contend with.
If you see a river, pray that beings gain entrance into the stream and into the ocean of wisdom. If you see a reservoir, pray that beings swiftly taste the one taste of the Dharma. If you see a pond, pray that beings become great in locution and skillful in preaching. If you see a well, pray that beings draw deep from the well of reason to disclose all dharmas. If you see a spring, pray that beings have inexhaustible roots of virtue. If you see a bridge, pray that beings carry all across to safety, as via a bridge. If you see a waterfall, pray that all beings cleanse the stains of delusion.
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1247
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
User avatar
greenjuice
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:56 pm

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by greenjuice »

One can practice Yogavacara methods of meditation without accept the specific Dhammakaya methods and doctrines. Regarding techniques, personally I have found the Yogavacara method of visualizing a sign and imagine it entering and moving in the body - to be useful for meditation, but Dhammakaya adds how you should imagine a bluish sphere and then when you move it and position it, you should imagine layers of lotus-seated bodies until you reach the innermost lotus-seated body within that imagined sphere, all of which has some theological significance, it's just weird.

Regarding doctrines, Dhammakaya movement is very unorthodox, having it's own creation myth and very strange superstitious belief. According to their doctrine where at the beginning there were three beings: White Dhammakaya, Silver Dhammakaya, and Black Dhammakaya, and three of them made the samsara, and White Dhammakaya made the nibbana (which is a sphere, literally a huge round place, like a ball, with very thick walls, like millions of kilometers thick walls). White Dhammakaya sent it's most powerful created being to incarnate as Sodh Candasaro, the founder of Dhammakaya tradition, but then seeing this is not enough White Dhammakaya himself incarnated as Dhammajayo, the current honorary abbot of the Dhammakaya monastery - temple. That Dhammakaya monastery has a million (yes, a million) small (15cm high) gold plated Buddha statues, and at the center of the temple is a big statue of Buddha made out of 14 tons of silver. They got all that money by preying upon people's superstition, telling them they must donate to the temple or at least buy amulets in order to ensure well-being and good afterlife. The temple complex can receive more than half a million of people, all arranged to sit or stand in rows, you can look at the pictures online, it looks very imposing, and was actually inspired by Nazi mass rallies which were similarly neatly arranged in rows, and Both Candasaro and Dhammajayo were /are fans of Hitler and conser(ed) him a part of the "Army of Light", a groups of good begins made by the White Dhammakaya and sent into samsara with the goal of doing great good deeds. And BTW, the government lead a crackdown against the temple in 2017, for financial crimes, and Dhammajayo has been in hiding since then.
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Coëmgenu »

greenjuice wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:24 pm One can practice Yogavacara methods of meditation without accept the specific Dhammakaya methods and doctrines.
The issue is they aren't based on Yogavacara. They aren't based on any kind of Buddhist precedent at all. The article I posted above is eye-opening IMO. There is nothing wrong with practicing out of the Yogavacara manual. Wat Dhammakaya is not Yogavacara Buddhism.
If you see a river, pray that beings gain entrance into the stream and into the ocean of wisdom. If you see a reservoir, pray that beings swiftly taste the one taste of the Dharma. If you see a pond, pray that beings become great in locution and skillful in preaching. If you see a well, pray that beings draw deep from the well of reason to disclose all dharmas. If you see a spring, pray that beings have inexhaustible roots of virtue. If you see a bridge, pray that beings carry all across to safety, as via a bridge. If you see a waterfall, pray that all beings cleanse the stains of delusion.
User avatar
greenjuice
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:56 pm

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by greenjuice »

Yes, I know about that article, I think I already read it, being that I know about things it talks about, the weird doctrines of the Dhammakaya. I remember I was shocked when I first found out what kind of doctrines they had. And also disappointed, because I myself believe in an Adi-Buddha and Adi-Mara, but they have an entire mythology and believe that their leaders are divine figures, which is nonsense.
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3725
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Mr Man »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:27 pm
greenjuice wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:24 pm One can practice Yogavacara methods of meditation without accept the specific Dhammakaya methods and doctrines.
The issue is they aren't based on Yogavacara. They aren't based on any kind of Buddhist precedent at all. The article I posted above is eye-opening IMO. There is nothing wrong with practicing out of the Yogavacara manual. Wat Dhammakaya is not Yogavacara Buddhism.
Hi Coëmgenu

The link is not working for me.
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Mr Man wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:59 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:27 pm
greenjuice wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:24 pm One can practice Yogavacara methods of meditation without accept the specific Dhammakaya methods and doctrines.
The issue is they aren't based on Yogavacara. They aren't based on any kind of Buddhist precedent at all. The article I posted above is eye-opening IMO. There is nothing wrong with practicing out of the Yogavacara manual. Wat Dhammakaya is not Yogavacara Buddhism.
Hi Coëmgenu

The link is not working for me.
I'm too computer-illiterate to know any way to link it other than this:

http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/ ... 388400.pdf

Is that working? It should lead directly to a PDF download.
If you see a river, pray that beings gain entrance into the stream and into the ocean of wisdom. If you see a reservoir, pray that beings swiftly taste the one taste of the Dharma. If you see a pond, pray that beings become great in locution and skillful in preaching. If you see a well, pray that beings draw deep from the well of reason to disclose all dharmas. If you see a spring, pray that beings have inexhaustible roots of virtue. If you see a bridge, pray that beings carry all across to safety, as via a bridge. If you see a waterfall, pray that all beings cleanse the stains of delusion.
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3725
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Mr Man »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:08 pm
Mr Man wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:59 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:27 pm
The issue is they aren't based on Yogavacara. They aren't based on any kind of Buddhist precedent at all. The article I posted above is eye-opening IMO. There is nothing wrong with practicing out of the Yogavacara manual. Wat Dhammakaya is not Yogavacara Buddhism.
Hi Coëmgenu

The link is not working for me.
I'm too computer-illiterate to know any way to link it other than this:

http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/ ... 388400.pdf

Is that working? It should lead directly to a PDF download.
Nope, server is timing out. But don't worry. Maybe it's just not working for me.
Last edited by Mr Man on Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Doesn’t work for me either.
"Analysis and synthesis are praised by the wise,
liberation in the Sāsana comes from analysis and synthesis;
the purpose of the method of analysis and synthesis is the ultimate"


Nāmarūpapariccheda
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Coëmgenu »

I'll PM Ceisiwr and Mr. Man the manually scanned pages in a bit. If anyone else cannot open it and wishes to, just PM me.
If you see a river, pray that beings gain entrance into the stream and into the ocean of wisdom. If you see a reservoir, pray that beings swiftly taste the one taste of the Dharma. If you see a pond, pray that beings become great in locution and skillful in preaching. If you see a well, pray that beings draw deep from the well of reason to disclose all dharmas. If you see a spring, pray that beings have inexhaustible roots of virtue. If you see a bridge, pray that beings carry all across to safety, as via a bridge. If you see a waterfall, pray that all beings cleanse the stains of delusion.
form
Posts: 1705
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by form »

I already know Theravada meditation method when I went through their basic and intermediate meditation course. I would say up till intermediate it is Orthodox Theravada meditation. And they taught people to keep to five or and meditate twice a day.
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3725
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Mr Man »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:21 pm I'll PM Ceisiwr and Mr. Man the manually scanned pages in a bit. If anyone else cannot open it and wishes to, just PM me.
It's working now so must have just been a server issue. Thank you Coëmgenu, I see it is by the former Mettanando Bhikkhu. I remember him from when he stayed at Amaravati in the early 80's.
form
Posts: 1705
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by form »

form wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:48 am I already know Theravada meditation method when I went through their basic and intermediate meditation course. I would say up till intermediate it is Orthodox Theravada meditation. And they taught people to keep to five or and meditate twice a day.
I meant keep to the five precepts and meditate twice a day.
User avatar
Pascal2
Posts: 499
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:48 am

Re: What is Dhammakaya?

Post by Pascal2 »

I think it is a school of Buddhism that is considered not genuine by most traditional monks but I may be wrong on this
Putting our own opinions before facts is the root of all fanaticism?
Post Reply