might be answered with "By means of entering the path of sotapanna"
Will keep my usual apoplectic reply shelved.
So, you have confirmed what I was worried about. For 99.999999999999999999% Buddhists there is no closure.
Simple because -
1. Most do not have the time to meditate for an hour in morning and evening.
2. We find experienced Buddhist teachers bickering openly on the internet about right way to meditate.
And there is no way to become a sotapanna without a long, arduous and accurate meditation practice.
Thank you for agreeing with me.
Neither agreement nor disagreement. Depends what Theravada doctrine has to say about it. Laymen sotapannas seem to be mentioned in suttas, so ordination doesn't seem to be a necessary prerequisite according to doctrine. But since there is the doctrine of rebirths it remains open what kind of accumulations might be necessary over past lives.
No_Mind wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:31 pm
BTW, please do not argue that there are many sotapannas. Last time someone on this forum (an esteemed member) said X was probably a Noble One, X ended up as an accused at a genocide trial.
it seems doctrine does not provide valid test methods to confirm or reject sotapanna, so it might be that there are more self-proclaimed fake sotapannas than true sotapannas the quantity of which is a matter of speculation and belief.
Nevertheless there's still the faculty of faith which seems to be independent of sotapanna status. So maybe that faith might be a basis for the "closure" you are seeking.
Mundane Order
Ignorance (avijja)
Kamma formations (sankhara)
Consciousness (viññana)
Mentality-materiality (namarupa)
Sixfold sense base (salayatana)
Contact (phassa)
Feeling (vedana)
Craving (tanha)
Clinging (upadana)
Existence (bhava)
Birth (jati)
Suffering (dukkha)
Transcendental Order
Faith (saddha)
Joy (pamojja)
Rapture (piti)
Tranquillity (passaddhi)
Happiness (sukha)
Concentration (samadhi)
Knowledge and vision of things as they are (yathabhutañanadassana)
Disenchantment (nibbida)
Dispassion (viraga)
Emancipation (vimutti)
Knowledge of destruction of the cankers (asavakkhaye ñana)
SteRo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:43 pmNevertheless there's still the faculty of faith which seems to be independent of sotapanna status. So maybe that faith might be a basis for the "closure" you are seeking.
Or a big ego. Ego works well too. That, and vodka, or so I've heard.
SteRo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:43 pmNevertheless there's still the faculty of faith which seems to be independent of sotapanna status. So maybe that faith might be a basis for the "closure" you are seeking.
Or a big ego. Ego works well too. That, and vodka, or so I've heard.
Binocular! We are on the same team. Never thought I would see the day
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
SteRo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:43 pmNevertheless there's still the faculty of faith which seems to be independent of sotapanna status. So maybe that faith might be a basis for the "closure" you are seeking.
Or a big ego. Ego works well too. That, and vodka, or so I've heard.
"Big ego" leads to separation, "I am" on the one hand and everything else on the other hand. Not sure whether such a setting may entail a "satisfying sense of finality" where the finality is different from dukkha which appears to be the opposite of "satisfying".
According to doctrine taking refuge is the manifestation of faith. That doesn't appear to be "big ego". But sutta says that faith can lead to sotapanna ("faith followers"). Having attained sotapanna there is absolute certainty, absolute certainty of no regress, absolute certainty of definitely attaining liberation and absolute certainty that all that is done and renounced is exactly the right path to attain what necessarily will be attained.
So pure faith actually is a similitude of sotapanna.
This is an ongoing conundrum on the path that stems from a misunderstanding of the concepts of ignorance and wisdom. In the conventional nomenclature ignorance and wisdom is related to intelligence and such as book learning. In the Dhamma (the teaching of the Buddha's, universal eternal law of nature) ignorance is equated with not knowing reality as it is in the present moment, moment to moment, which has little to do with rational thought (in fact as thought is anicca and if clung to leads to misery, it needs to be let go of, like all compounded phenomena) and it is through the continuous awareness of this continual flux or flow of phenomena (anicca) that ignorance is dispelled and true wisdom arises. So, closure or cessation naturally comes about as a a result of correct meditation. Patience is a supreme quality. Faith born of experience is important.
SteRo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:17 pm"Big ego" leads to separation, "I am" on the one hand and everything else on the other hand. Not sure whether such a setting may entail a "satisfying sense of finality" where the finality is different from dukkha which appears to be the opposite of "satisfying".
Like there's something wrong with such separation. It's why it's so satisfying to empty one's bowels: that distinction between self and other is deeply satisfying.
binocular wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:10 pm
It's why it's so satisfying to empty one's bowels: that distinction between self and other is deeply satisfying.
No_Mind wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:03 am
In my life, most often, I keep going back to my past because of lack of closure.
I like explanations. That is the downside of being rational. I like everything to be explainable or at least have few hypothesis about why event X happened the way it did.
The past is gone, maybe you just need to relax, instead of always wanting more.
"Dry out that which is past, let there be nothing for you in the future. If you do not grasp at anything in the present you will go about at peace. One who, in regard to this entire mindbody complex, has no cherishing of it as 'mine,' and who does not grieve for what is non-existent truly suffers no loss in the world. For him there is no thought of anything as 'this is mine' or 'this is another's'; not finding any state of ownership, and realizing, 'nothing is mine,' he does not grieve.
"To be not callous, not greedy, at rest and unruffled by circumstances — that is the profitable result I proclaim when asked about one who does not waver. For one who does not crave, who has understanding, there is no production (of new kamma). Refraining from initiating (new kamma) he sees security everywhere. A sage does not speak in terms of being equal, lower or higher. Calmed and without selfishness he neither grasps nor rejects."