The goal of Buddhism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Chat2enlighten
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:25 pm

The goal of Buddhism

Post by Chat2enlighten »

The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 22905
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

That's Bhikkhu Bodhi's teaching, not the Buddha's.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)

Chat2enlighten
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:25 pm

The goal of Buddhism

Post by Chat2enlighten »

The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future. To be born is the beginning of suffering. Therefore Buddha explained the Nibbana as a means to not be born anymore anywhere.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 22905
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

The problem is dukkha, not life itself.

Kind regards.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 7739
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr »

Chat2enlighten wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 am
The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.
The goal is to gain knowledge and abolish ignorance. When that happens the taints are abolished and so craving and clinging cease. When there is no craving and clinging there is no sense of self and no dukkha:
Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a dart. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; he is not shaken and does not yearn. For there is nothing present in him by which he might be born. Not being born, how could he age? Not ageing, how could he die? Not dying, how could he be shaken? Not being shaken, why should he yearn?
https://suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi

However, until parinibbana there is still the experience of the body and the feelings that come with it.

Metta

:)
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Sun May 17, 2020 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness. ” SN 35:101

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 7739
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr »

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:24 am
Greetings,

The problem is dukkha, not life itself.

Kind regards.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Well, even for the Arahants they still have to put up with the body and the painful feelings that come with it in life, until parinibbana:
Suppose there was a woman or man who was young, youthful, and fond of adornments, and had bathed their head. If the corpse of a snake or a dog or a human were hung around their neck, they’d be horrified, repelled, and disgusted. In the same way, I’m horrified, repelled, and disgusted by this rotten body. Someone who had not established mindfulness of the body might well attack one of their spiritual companions and leave without saying sorry.

Suppose someone was to carry around a bowl of fat that was leaking and oozing from holes and cracks. In the same way, I carry around this body that’s leaking and oozing from holes and cracks. Someone who had not established mindfulness of the body might well attack one of their spiritual companions and leave without saying sorry.”
https://suttacentral.net/an9.11/en/sujato
“Bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness. ” SN 35:101

form
Posts: 1472
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by form »

Interesting discussion here.

SteRo
Posts: 2414
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by SteRo »

Chat2enlighten wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 am
The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.
That's a valid expression but not the only valid one in terms of "The goal of Buddhism". Why? Because there are different perspectives.
To the spheres of experience ("users") it may concern: When applying words no truth or reality is claimed. Language only knows the extremes of (+)-affirming experience ("is", "has", "does", etc.) and (-)-negating experience ("isn't", "hasn't", "doesn't", etc.) but it does not know the 'zero'-(0)-experience of non-apprehension. Therefore every linguistic expression might erroneously appear as claim though it is only a preliminary suggestion.

santa100
Posts: 4198
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by santa100 »

Chat2enlighten wrote:The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.
Depends on which goal? immediate, short-term, long-term, or ultimate? Talking ultimate or long-term goal for a lay person who still lives his lay life full of sensual pleasures and burdens wouldn't really make much sense. That's why Ven. Bodhi's book "In the Buddha's Words" (which by the way a great book highly recommend you check it out) provides various different goals to different people depending on where they currently are on the Path and how committed they're willing to be in the future: happiness in the present life, fortunate rebirths, deepening one's insight, or complete total liberation.

Spiny Norman
Posts: 7399
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by Spiny Norman »

Chat2enlighten wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 am
The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.
Which Buddhism are you talking about? There are many schools, and sub-schools.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
Nicolas
Posts: 1044
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by Nicolas »

The goal is the eradication of dukkha.
The means are: the eradication of ignorance, the eradication of craving, the eradication of birth, etc.
Paṭiccasamuppāda Sutta (SN 12.1) wrote: With the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations; with the cessation of volitional formations, cessation of consciousness; with the cessation of consciousness, cessation of name-and-form; with the cessation of name-and-form, cessation of the six sense bases; with the cessation of the six sense bases, cessation of contact; with the cessation of contact, cessation of feeling; with the cessation of feeling, cessation of craving; with the cessation of craving, cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.

justindesilva
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by justindesilva »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:57 pm
Chat2enlighten wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 am
The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.
Which Buddhism are you talking about? There are many schools, and sub-schools.
In dammacakkapavattana Lord Budda claims: that for Lord Budda there will be no more becoming and this is my last birth. Hence if one expressed that the goal of Buddhism is not to be borne again we have to accept it.

User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by confusedlayman »

justindesilva wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:31 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:57 pm
Chat2enlighten wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 am
The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.
Which Buddhism are you talking about? There are many schools, and sub-schools.
In dammacakkapavattana Lord Budda claims: that for Lord Budda there will be no more becoming and this is my last birth. Hence if one expressed that the goal of Buddhism is not to be borne again we have to accept it.
true. no conciousness arise again after physical death.
Master said dont neglect concentration ... practice jhana "O dhamma wheel users! "

Spiny Norman
Posts: 7399
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by Spiny Norman »

justindesilva wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:31 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:57 pm
Chat2enlighten wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 am
The goal of Buddhism is not to be born in the future.
Which Buddhism are you talking about? There are many schools, and sub-schools.
In dammacakkapavattana Lord Budda claims: that for Lord Budda there will be no more becoming and this is my last birth. Hence if one expressed that the goal of Buddhism is not to be borne again we have to accept it.
Like Hinduism, Buddhism is pluralistic, and very diverse. These are very broad categories, with many divisions and lots of overlap.

To use a Christian analogy, it's like asking a Quaker to comment on Jehohava Witness doctrine. An entirely pointless exercise.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 2793
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: The goal of Buddhism

Post by Bundokji »

Faith
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

Post Reply