corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

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confusedlayman
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corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by confusedlayman »

Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.

some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.

somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.

what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
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Ceisiwr
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by Ceisiwr »

Well we have suttas where the Buddha did prefer something and spoke harshly at times. We also have suttas where Arahants had clear rivalry. Connected with that Arahants who are concerned about their status in the sangha. So, we have to explain these behaviours.
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.


I see you in Naraka. ;)










:tongue: :tongue:
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by confusedlayman »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.


I see you in Naraka. ;)

I not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?








:tongue: :tongue:
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by confusedlayman »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 pm
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.


I see you in Naraka. ;)

I not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?








:tongue: :tongue:
I not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?
dont think
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 pm
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.


I see you in Naraka. ;)









:tongue: :tongue:
I not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?
I was just joking. And I addressed those who are doubting Arhants. :rofl:
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
beanyan
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by beanyan »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.

some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.

somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.

what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
You mean the discussion how even buddhas don't put up with noise pollution? Of course they don't. Why should they?
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by whynotme »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.


I see you in Naraka. ;)










:tongue: :tongue:
Only a monk can create schism in the sangha.

OTOH, discussing this matter is betting against nature. If it is true that arahant can get angry, u gain a little knowledge, but if it is false, and u claim its true, you get the jackpot of nature.

Be careful what are u wishing for
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by whynotme »

Metta, some ppl translate as love, is one of the trained way to enlightenment, but its the easiest state to misunderstood with attachment. Fully with metta can not get angry, but even for some ppl highly trained in metta, e.g let say 90 percent capacity, angry still can rise. This gives the false impression that awaken ppl can get angry. They can be highly awaken, but not fully, e.g some yogis can get the highest jhana, they can access to many advanced knowledges, but still not a fully awaken arahant. And even if they are still sometime angry, that does not means 90 percent capacity is a total waste. These ppl still can be called awaken in some senses
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by Wizard in the Forest »

I wouldn't just state your opinion as if it were factual. If you think this is the case bring Canonical evidence and if there is no Canonical evidence then it can, and will, be rightfully dismissed by anyone else as just being your opinion, which while it feels valuable to you, to one Practicing the Dhamma it is not worth digging into.
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.

some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.

somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.

what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
Why not simply stick to what the suttas say about arahants? There are always some who go beyond what the suttas say through speculating but that is of no relevance.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:48 am
confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.

some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.

somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.

what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
Why not simply stick to what the suttas say about arahants? There are always some who go beyond what the suttas say through speculating but that is of no relevance.
I hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire for
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:51 am
SteRo wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:48 am
confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.

some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.

somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.

what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
Why not simply stick to what the suttas say about arahants? There are always some who go beyond what the suttas say through speculating but that is of no relevance.
I hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire for
:shrug: your view is your view and your aspiration is your aspiration.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:59 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:51 am
SteRo wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:48 am

Why not simply stick to what the suttas say about arahants? There are always some who go beyond what the suttas say through speculating but that is of no relevance.
I hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire for
:shrug: your view is your view and your aspiration is your aspiration.
Yes and thats how it is
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:20 am
SteRo wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:59 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 5:51 am
I hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire for
:shrug: your view is your view and your aspiration is your aspiration.
Yes and thats how it is
Then why have you started this thread?
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
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