Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

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whynotme
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Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by whynotme »

Given that even the Jotipala, the very recent previous life of bodhisattva Gotama still make a bad action against the last Buddha he met (Kassapa), it seems bodhisatva can still reborn in hell if he doesnt pay attention to his actions.

Can a niyatha bodhisattva (determined to be Buddha) still be reborn in hell? It is said that current Mara is a bodhisatva, can he still be reborn in hell due to his bad actions? Some noble beings like the previous Mara is actually the Mogallana, chief disciple of Gotama budha, still was reborn in hell, and he was a savaka bodhisatva, with many moral lives. So I think even niyatha bodhisattva is not guaranteered against reborn in hell

What does Therevada say about this?
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robertk
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by robertk »

He can be born in hell, but not in avicci hell, the worst one.
Note spelling is bodhisatta.

SteRo
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by SteRo »

whynotme wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:54 am
Can a niyatha bodhisattva (determined to be Buddha) still be reborn in hell?
Not after stream entry:
'Hell is ended; animal wombs are ended; the state of the hungry shades is ended; states of deprivation, destitution, the bad bourns are ended!
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

SteRo wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:17 pm
Not after stream entry:
Bodhisattas do not attain Stream-entry until their final rebirth. On the night of their Enlightenment, the Buddhas attain all four stages of a Noble One in rapid succession.
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SteRo
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by SteRo »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:27 pm
SteRo wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:17 pm
Not after stream entry:
Bodhisattas do not attain Stream-entry until their final rebirth. On the night of their Enlightenment, the Buddhas attain all four stages of a Noble One in rapid succession.
That does not contradict what I've said.

whynotme
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by whynotme »

Thank you all
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whynotme
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by whynotme »

Did Gotama reborn in hell in his previous bohisatta lives in any Jataka tales?
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confusedlayman
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by confusedlayman »

whynotme wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:54 am
Given that even the Jotipala, the very recent previous life of bodhisattva Gotama still make a bad action against the last Buddha he met (Kassapa), it seems bodhisatva can still reborn in hell if he doesnt pay attention to his actions.

Can a niyatha bodhisattva (determined to be Buddha) still be reborn in hell? It is said that current Mara is a bodhisatva, can he still be reborn in hell due to his bad actions? Some noble beings like the previous Mara is actually the Mogallana, chief disciple of Gotama budha, still was reborn in hell, and he was a savaka bodhisatva, with many moral lives. So I think even niyatha bodhisattva is not guaranteered against reborn in hell

What does Therevada say about this?
If bodhisatta gains enlightment after all beings then why buddha died leaving us alone even hia teachibg will disappear in one day
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

justindesilva
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by justindesilva »

whynotme wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:03 am
Did Gotama reborn in hell in his previous bohisatta lives in any Jataka tales?
Gotama Buddha in his previous lives as bodisatva has no reference to have been born in a preta Atma or avici naraka but is said to have been born in as animals. During such births he had fulfilled his efforts to complete dasa paramita. Once as an elephant he had jumped over a hill to give his flesh to hungry folks. At another instance he was born as a sqirrel when he tried to empty the sea with his tail to save kids (kalandaka Jatakaya). At another instance he lead his monkey tribe to be saved from massacre near a lake. (This is nalapana Jatakaya).

SarathW
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by SarathW »

whynotme wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:54 am
Given that even the Jotipala, the very recent previous life of bodhisattva Gotama still make a bad action against the last Buddha he met (Kassapa), it seems bodhisatva can still reborn in hell if he doesnt pay attention to his actions.

Can a niyatha bodhisattva (determined to be Buddha) still be reborn in hell? It is said that current Mara is a bodhisatva, can he still be reborn in hell due to his bad actions? Some noble beings like the previous Mara is actually the Mogallana, chief disciple of Gotama budha, still was reborn in hell, and he was a savaka bodhisatva, with many moral lives. So I think even niyatha bodhisattva is not guaranteered against reborn in hell

What does Therevada say about this?
Interesting question.
According to Sutta only a Sotapanna is assured a rebirth in a realm other than hell.
The question is whether Bodhisatta was a Sotapanna.
The clear answer is that he was not a Sotapanna. Bodhisatva realise Nibbana by his own effort.
I can't give an answer with Sutta's support.
My only answer is that there is an exception in all cases.
In my opinion, Bodhisatta is well deserving to be one of the exceptions.
:shrug:

The following post is another exceptions find in sutta.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34710&hilit=
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by santa100 »

SarathW wrote:The question is whether Bodhisatta was a Sotapanna.
Ven. Bodhi's interesting note citing the Comy's explanation in "Middle length Discourses":
MA notes that bodhisattas(or bodhisattvas in Sanskrit) go forth under the Buddhas to purify their virtue, learn the Buddha's teachings, practise the meditative life, and develop insight up to conformity knowledge(anulomanana). But they do not make effort to attain the paths and fruits (which would terminate their bodhisatta career).

SarathW
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Re: Could bodhisatva still be reborn in hell?

Post by SarathW »

develop insight up to conformity knowledge(anulomanana)


anuloma-citta: 'adaptation-moment of consciousness', denotes the third of the 4 moments of impulsion (javana, q.v.) flashing up immediately before either reaching the absorptions (jhāna, q.v.) or the supermundane paths (s. ariya-puggala). These 4 moments of impulsion are: the preparation (parikamma), access (upacāra), adaptation (anuloma) and maturity (gotrabhū) moments. For further details, s. javana, gotrabhū.

anuloma-ñāṇa: 'adaptation-knowledge' or conformity-knowledge, is identical with the 'adaptation-to-truth knowledge', the last of 9 insight-knowledges (vipassanā-ñāṇa) which constitute the purification of knowledge and vision of the path-progress' (s. visuddhi VI, 9). Cf. Vis.M. XXI.

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic3_a.htm
===============

Do you have a further explanation of above 4 moments?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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