Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SteRo
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by SteRo »

NuanceOfSuchness wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:28 pm
SteRo wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:04 pm
SarathW wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:45 am
...
Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?
Yes. It happens often for moments but passes by unregistered.
Wouldn't that be considered a Fruition?
It is a transient state. First there is a continuum of ignorant moments, then there is a gap empty of conscious moments which lasts one or a few moments then the continuum of ignorant moments sets in again. The gap is a natural occurence of life energy. It isn't based on having received teachings about reality at all. It is like 'forgetting ignorance' for one or a few moments without knowing what ignorance is. That can't be called a fruition.

thepea
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by thepea »

Consciousness is permanent.

chownah
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by chownah »

thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:30 am
Consciousness is permanent.
Consciusness is impermanent.....and further more stream of consciusness is impermanent.
chownah

SteRo
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by SteRo »

thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:30 am
Consciousness is permanent.
That might seem to be so when with the arising of consciousness ignorance is concomitant.

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robertk
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by robertk »

thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:30 am
Consciousness is permanent.
Can you elaborate...

thepea
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by thepea »

robertk wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:16 pm
thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:30 am
Consciousness is permanent.
Can you elaborate...
Nibanna, the final goal, the enlightened one, peace, love, god, the teacher.

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AlexBrains92
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by AlexBrains92 »

SarathW wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:45 am
Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?
Consciousness is based on the senses and is interdependent with the other aggregates.
With death the sensations cease and the aggregates separate, so (stream of) consciousness can naturally come to an end.
"If appeasement of desires is what is really blissful, 'desirelessness' as the appeasement of all desires would be the Supreme Bliss, and this in fact is what Nibbāna is." (Bhikkhu K. Ñāṇananda)

thepea
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by thepea »

AlexBrains92 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:55 pm
SarathW wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:45 am
Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?
Consciousness is based on the senses and is interdependent with the other aggregates.
With death the sensations cease and the aggregates separate, so (stream of) consciousness can naturally come to an end.
But what about rebirth?
The body dies, the mind separates from body and in most cases another formation will become conscious.
Consciousness is permanent.

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AlexBrains92
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by AlexBrains92 »

thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:36 pm

But what about rebirth?
The body dies, the mind separates from body and in most cases another formation will become conscious.
Consciousness is permanent.
Mind and body are interdependent, so in any case it will not be the same consciousness.
Vinnanam aniccam.
"If appeasement of desires is what is really blissful, 'desirelessness' as the appeasement of all desires would be the Supreme Bliss, and this in fact is what Nibbāna is." (Bhikkhu K. Ñāṇananda)

thepea
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by thepea »

AlexBrains92 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:58 pm
thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:36 pm

But what about rebirth?
The body dies, the mind separates from body and in most cases another formation will become conscious.
Consciousness is permanent.
Mind and body are interdependent, so in any case it will not be the same consciousness.
Vinnanam aniccam.
What do you mean by same consciousness.

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Nicolas
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by Nicolas »

The stream of consciousness doesn't end until final Nibbana.
The stream of consciousness isn't unchanging, it changes.
The stream of consciousness itself is composed of many different instances of consciousness, different from each other.

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confusedlayman
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by confusedlayman »

thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:36 pm
AlexBrains92 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:55 pm
SarathW wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:45 am
Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?
Consciousness is based on the senses and is interdependent with the other aggregates.
With death the sensations cease and the aggregates separate, so (stream of) consciousness can naturally come to an end.
But what about rebirth?
The body dies, the mind separates from body and in most cases another formation will become conscious.
Consciousness is permanent.
Hit ur head with big rock u will go unconious.. after that u regain conciousness .. ask urself where did conciousness go in between ? This is a anology and doesn’t not contain hate or anger. Metta
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

thepea
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by thepea »

confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:31 pm
Hit ur head with big rock u will go unconious.. after that u regain conciousness .. ask urself where did conciousness go in between ? This is a anology and doesn’t not contain hate or anger. Metta
Right, but the consciousness is still present sensing that body requires oxygen heart needs to keep beating, blood is still fighting off bacteria, etc... this is the “sub-conscious” and it hasn’t gone anywhere. Still there conscious of every little microscopic sensation, thought, reacting as always.

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confusedlayman
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by confusedlayman »

thepea wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:02 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:31 pm
Hit ur head with big rock u will go unconious.. after that u regain conciousness .. ask urself where did conciousness go in between ? This is a anology and doesn’t not contain hate or anger. Metta
Right, but the consciousness is still present sensing that body requires oxygen heart needs to keep beating, blood is still fighting off bacteria, etc... this is the “sub-conscious” and it hasn’t gone anywhere. Still there conscious of every little microscopic sensation, thought, reacting as always.
Conciousness means knowingness ... heart can beat outside the body in artificially but there is no conciousness in it. If u think automatic involuntary function like digestion and heartbeat needs conciousness then u wrong. Energy is different, conciousness is different, life is collective word. I will explain about it detail if u want
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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NuanceOfSuchness
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Re: Can stream of consciousness naturally come to an end?

Post by NuanceOfSuchness »

SteRo wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:52 pm
NuanceOfSuchness wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:28 pm
SteRo wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:04 pm


Yes. It happens often for moments but passes by unregistered.
Wouldn't that be considered a Fruition?
It is a transient state. First there is a continuum of ignorant moments, then there is a gap empty of conscious moments which lasts one or a few moments then the continuum of ignorant moments sets in again. The gap is a natural occurence of life energy. It isn't based on having received teachings about reality at all. It is like 'forgetting ignorance' for one or a few moments without knowing what ignorance is. That can't be called a fruition.
I see. A little like satori but what you're saying here is that sometimes consciousness, as defined through the aggregate model, has gaps whereby the aggregates are no longer operating. Right, I think I understand that. However, how is this possible using the six-consciousnesses model? If there are no external sensory objects impeding the corresponding sense organs the mind is forced to create its own forms which we can observe through sleeping in the form of dreams?

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