Neutering animals.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
hermitwin
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Neutering animals.

Post by hermitwin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:36 pm

My good friend is an animal lover.
Is there bad Karma when animal lovers neuter the animals?

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Sam Vara
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:09 pm

hermitwin wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:36 pm
My good friend is an animal lover.
Is there bad Karma when animal lovers neuter the animals?
As ever, it depends on the intention involved. Normally the intention is good, for reasons to do with the welfare of the animal and its owner and others that they meet. So good kamma, in that case.

char101
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by char101 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Yes it is bad kamma.

Why? First Buddhism morality is different from common morality. Buddhist morality is based on alobha, adosa, amoha (non selfish, non harm, having right view).

The reason for neuterization? (1) forcing it for the benefit of the owner, this is lobha (selfishness) (2) forcing it for the benefit of the animal, this is dosa (dislike), because the owner don't want to feel sad when the animal is sick.

If we are the animal would we want to be neuterized? I don't think so.

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Aloka
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Aloka » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:23 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:09 pm
hermitwin wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:36 pm
My good friend is an animal lover.
Is there bad Karma when animal lovers neuter the animals?
As ever, it depends on the intention involved. Normally the intention is good, for reasons to do with the welfare of the animal and its owner and others that they meet. So good kamma, in that case.
:goodpost:

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Aloka
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Aloka » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:32 pm

char101 wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:17 pm

If we are the animal would we want to be neuterized? I don't think so.
I think there are plenty of men who decide to have a vasectomy so that their wives won't have to have more pregnancies, they just don't go around telling everyone about their private lives, especially on the internet!

.

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Bundokji
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Bundokji » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:44 pm

Does neutering animals remove the sexual desire? or merely remove the ability to copulate?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:54 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:44 pm
Does neutering animals remove the sexual desire? or merely remove the ability to copulate?
Normally, the desire as well.

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Bundokji
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Bundokji » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:56 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:54 pm
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:44 pm
Does neutering animals remove the sexual desire? or merely remove the ability to copulate?
Normally, the desire as well.
Then, this would be a good Kamma i guess, of course, pending the intention as you stated earlier.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

thepea
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by thepea » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:22 pm

It’s a wrong livelihood issue to trade in flesh.
It complicates your life and takes you further from the goal.
Keeping pets should be avoided, making decisions like this unneccessary.

santa100
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by santa100 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:26 pm

hermitwin wrote:My good friend is an animal lover.
Is there bad Karma when animal lovers neuter the animals?
A few links I'd recommend you check them out before answering the question. Regarding your friend as an animal lover, so s/he'd think, but it might not be the case once you've read this thread.

About the potential kammic consequences, simply imagine we humans as the pets to an intelligent lifeform a few percentage point different from our DNAs, who'd look at and treat us just like we look at and treat our cats and dogs, like the thought experiment Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson gave below.

dharmacorps
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by dharmacorps » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:31 pm

Keeping pets is not discouraged in the canon that I am aware of. Keeping agricultural or farming animals is discussed more I believe. Neutered animals live longer typically, so I am not sure there is an argument that is sutta based against keeping pets or neutering them. It would be up to personal discernment and motivations.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:56 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:31 pm
Keeping pets is not discouraged in the canon that I am aware of. Keeping agricultural or farming animals is discussed more I believe. Neutered animals live longer typically, so I am not sure there is an argument that is sutta based against keeping pets or neutering them. It would be up to personal discernment and motivations.
It's quite possible that "pet ownership" in the way we know it simply didn't happen in the Buddha's time. Perhaps animals were either economically useful in some way, or remained in the wild. Whether that's true or not, I can't remember any proscriptions in the suttas.

Our local monastery has had a series of cats. The latest one is called Cula. She's neutered. A fine animal.

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pilgrim
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by pilgrim » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:14 pm

Having pets is not too different from having a mentally challenged child. If you have a mentally challenged daughter and you cannot stop her from being sexually active, would you not compel her to have some sort of birth control?

dharmacorps
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by dharmacorps » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:52 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:56 pm

It's quite possible that "pet ownership" in the way we know it simply didn't happen in the Buddha's time.
I think this is definitely true-- the idea of a "companion animal" in the way we think of it may not have existed. But I do think people have always had animals they feed/care for/play with that do not have clear economic benefits to the human. I remember reading dogs were domesticated 10,000 years ago. In that regard, I think if the Buddha saw that as a impediment to practice he would have said something. I do think that if you have tons of pets, it would effect your ability to practice.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Neutering animals.

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:01 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:52 pm

I think this is definitely true-- the idea of a "companion animal" in the way we think of it may not have existed. But I do think people have always had animals they feed/care for/play with that do not have clear economic benefits to the human. I remember reading dogs were domesticated 10,000 years ago. In that regard, I think if the Buddha saw that as a impediment to practice he would have said something. I do think that if you have tons of pets, it would effect your ability to practice.
Yes, I agree. It's like many things that are allowable for lay practitioners. If you overdo it, then you multiply cares and hindrances.

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