To be or not to be

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sentinel
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To be or not to be

Post by sentinel » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:23 am

Bhava and vibhava . Desiring to be something that craving to be is not much different from craving not to be . For example says one attach to follow non meat diet at the same time one despise to be a meat eater , aversion . So the Buddha taught follow middle path .
“Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” -Buddha

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:27 am

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sentinel
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by sentinel » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:36 am

:meditate:

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SDC
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by SDC » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:38 pm

sentinel wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:23 am
Bhava and vibhava . Desiring to be something that craving to be is not much different from craving not to be . For example says one attach to follow non meat diet at the same time one despise to be a meat eater , aversion . So the Buddha taught follow middle path .
The way I see it, the Being that is craved for is on the level of the capability to possess choice - of having the responsibility of being that Being, of being the "you" that is found there in the world. Craving for the ownership of that capability "to be" is what provides the notion of choice, the nature of action in general - an ownership that is of course not possible. Craving to be without that capability or responsibility - especially when it is seen as a burden - is vibhava-taṇhā.

JohnK
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by JohnK » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:37 pm

To Be or Not To Be -- Is that the Question?

That happens to be the title of Chapter 5 of The Island: An Anthology of the Buddha's Tachings on Nibbana by Ajahns Pasanno and Amaro.
They provide (among others):
“Bhikkhu, ‘I am’ is a conceiving; ‘I am this’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall not be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be possessed of form’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be formless’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be non-percipient’ is a conceiving. Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a barb. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; they are not shaken and are not agitated. For there is nothing present in them by which they might be born. Not being born, how could they age? Not ageing, how could they die? Not dying, how could they be shaken? Not being shaken, why should they be agitated?”~ M 140.31"
https://www.abhayagiri.org/books/451-the-island
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]

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Bundokji
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by Bundokji » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:57 am

SDC wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:38 pm
The way I see it, the Being that is craved for is on the level of the capability to possess choice - of having the responsibility of being that Being, of being the "you" that is found there in the world. Craving for the ownership of that capability "to be" is what provides the notion of choice, the nature of action in general - an ownership that is of course not possible. Craving to be without that capability or responsibility - especially when it is seen as a burden - is vibhava-taṇhā.
You have lost me there. Could you please expand on the underlined?

If such an ownership is not possible, then why the Buddha advised for it to be one of the five contemplations?

Thanks
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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SDC
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by SDC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:24 am

Bundokji wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:57 am
SDC wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:38 pm
The way I see it, the Being that is craved for is on the level of the capability to possess choice - of having the responsibility of being that Being, of being the "you" that is found there in the world. Craving for the ownership of that capability "to be" is what provides the notion of choice, the nature of action in general - an ownership that is of course not possible. Craving to be without that capability or responsibility - especially when it is seen as a burden - is vibhava-taṇhā.
You have lost me there. Could you please expand on the underlined?

If such an ownership is not possible, then why the Buddha advised for it to be one of the five contemplations?

Thanks
Hi B,

From AN 5.57:
“And for the sake of what benefit should a woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, often reflect thus: ‘I am the owner of my kamma, the heir of my kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my relative, kamma as my resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that I do’? People engage in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. But when one often reflects upon this theme, such misconduct is either completely abandoned or diminished. It is for the sake of this benefit that a woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, should often reflect thus: ‘I am the owner of my kamma, the heir of my kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my relative, kamma as my resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that I do.’
The far-too-famous "heir of my kamma" is here as a reflection to support to abandonment or diminishing of misconduct by body, speech and mind. There is not much in the sutta indicating support for the ownership of Being, which is the fundamental ownership I was referring to above - the ownership that would make one the owner of action. If "I am" that "I", whatever "I" do, it is "I" doing it. The reflection is for one in training who needs to think about action in a way that makes them see that "I" is responsible for it. Only with that sense of responsibility will one begin to take a serious and vested interest in what action they take. Sure it is easy to say, "Well there isn't a self so it doesn't matter", but since the ordinary worldling can't see it, they need to first take that "I" seriously.

From SN 10.211:
He holds right view and has a correct perspective thus: ‘There is what is given, sacrificed, and offered; there is fruit and result of good and bad actions; there is this world and the other world; there is mother and father; there are beings spontaneously reborn; there are in the world ascetics and brahmins of right conduct and right practice who, having realized this world and the other world for themselves by direct knowledge, make them known to others.’

“One possessing these ten qualities is deposited in heaven as if brought there.”
The above is the mundane right view. This person takes their "I" seriously. But of course, there is more work to do.

From SN 35.146:
And what, bhikkhus, is the cessation of kamma? When one reaches liberation through the cessation of bodily action, verbal action, and mental action, this is called the cessation of kamma.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the way leading to the cessation of kamma? It is this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.
Action in the sense that it is action on behalf of/for "I" comes to an end at liberation: the discovery that whatever that "I" was, it was not mine to begin with.
AN 3.33 wrote:...when he enters and dwells in that liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, through which there is no more I-making, mine-making, and underlying tendency to conceit for one who enters and dwells in it, he is called a bhikkhu who has cut off craving, stripped off the fetter, and, by completely breaking through conceit, has made an end of suffering.
I'm super tired and just yanked a deer tick from my chest, so I apologize if this is a bit hectic. :?

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Bundokji
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by Bundokji » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:00 am

SDC wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:24 am
I'm super tired and just yanked a deer tick from my chest, so I apologize if this is a bit hectic. :?
No worries SDC and thanks for taking the time to answer my question :anjali:

P.S: I hope you and the deer tick are doing fine :tongue:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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SDC
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Re: To be or not to be

Post by SDC » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:31 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:00 am
SDC wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:24 am
I'm super tired and just yanked a deer tick from my chest, so I apologize if this is a bit hectic. :?
No worries SDC and thanks for taking the time to answer my question :anjali:

P.S: I hope you and the deer tick are doing fine :tongue:
You're welcome! I hope what I said was helpful.

The tick, unfortunately, did not make it...

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