Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
zan
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Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by zan »

Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.






.





I do not believe this, but want to hear the counters to this idea and this is the least convoluted way
I am just a learner. Keep that in mind when you read my words.

Just to be safe, assume all of my words could be incorrect. Look to an arahant for total accuracy and confirmation.
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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by cappuccino »

nir·va·na
noun
the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth



sam·sa·ra
noun
the cycle of death and rebirth to which life in the material world is bound
SarathW
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SarathW »

Nibbana and Samsara could be identical if you take Nibbana as an objective reality.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:38 pm Nibbana and Samsara could be identical if you take Nibbana as an objective reality.
Nibbana = an objective reality
Samsara = an objective reality
Nibbana = Samsara

A frog = an animal
A dog = an animal
A frog = a dog

SarathW breathes
A jellyfish breathes
SarathW is a jellyfish

SarathW eats bananas
Monkeys eat bananas
SarathW is a monkey

:strawman: :strawman: :strawman: :strawman: Four Noble Strawmen
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Aloka
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by Aloka »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:04 am
SarathW wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:38 pm Nibbana and Samsara could be identical if you take Nibbana as an objective reality.
Nibbana = an objective reality
Samsara = an objective reality
Nibbana = Samsara

A frog = an animal
A dog = an animal
A frog = a dog

SarathW breathes
A jellyfish breathes
SarathW is a jellyfish

SarathW eats bananas
Monkeys eat bananas
SarathW is a monkey

:strawman: :strawman: :strawman: :strawman: Four Noble Strawmen

Lol! :D



.
SarathW
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SarathW »

A frog = an animal
A dog = an animal
A frog = a dog
and
An animal = An animal.
:tongue:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by pegembara »

Nibbana and samsara are interdependent or coexistent.
There is, monks, an unborn[1] — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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DooDoot
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by DooDoot »

pegembara wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 am Nibbana and samsara are interdependent or coexistent.
Since Nibbana is unconditioned, how can the above be so? Possibly the Udana verse was misinterpreted. :shrug:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
pegembara
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by pegembara »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:10 am
pegembara wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 am Nibbana and samsara are interdependent or coexistent.
Since Nibbana is unconditioned, how can the above be so? Possibly the Udana verse was misinterpreted. :shrug:
There is dukkha and the end of dukkha. How can dukkha end if there isn't dukkha in the first place?
Without dependent arising, there is no dependent cessation.

Consciousness and namarupa.
All sights, sounds, smells, tastes,
tactile sensations, & ideas
that are welcome,
appealing,
agreeable —
as long as they're said
to exist,
are supposed by the world
together with its devas
to be bliss.
But when they cease,
they're supposed by them
to be stress.
What others say is blissful,
the noble ones say is stress.
What others say is stressful,
the noble know as bliss.
See the Dhamma, hard to understand!
Here those who don't know
are confused.
For those who are veiled,
it's darkness,
blindness
for those who don't see.
But for the good it is blatant,
like light
for those who see.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
SarathW
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SarathW »

So what you are saying is we can't heal a wound without having another wound?
Are you saying we can't demolish a house and have a clean land?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SteRo
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by SteRo »

How could the different meanings of two different words be identical?
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
char101
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by char101 »

If Nibanna is samsara then you would already have attained Nibanna.
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Bundokji
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by Bundokji »

How about you tell us: on what basis you came to the conclusion that nibbana and samsara are identical?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Dan74
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by Dan74 »

In order to discuss the OP statement, it would be helpful to really understand what it means, or what the OP thinks it means.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
zan wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:18 pm Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Nirvana is unconditioned, samsara is conditioned.

No amount of Mahariddling alters this true Dhamma.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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