Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
sentinel
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Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by sentinel » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:13 am

Nibbana is unconditioned so does Atta .
Nibbana is permanent so does Atta .
The definition appear similar .
知人者智,自知者明。胜人有力,自胜者强。知足者富,强行有志。不失其所者久,死而不亡者寿。

SarathW
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by SarathW » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:40 am

Nibbana itself is not a thing.
In that sense it is permanent.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

sentinel
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by sentinel » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:47 am

How do you know nibbana is what ?
知人者智,自知者明。胜人有力,自胜者强。知足者富,强行有志。不失其所者久,死而不亡者寿。

SarathW
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by SarathW » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:03 am

Just a guess based on what I have read and what I know so far.
If it is not a thing how do I know?
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SteRo
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by SteRo » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:39 am

sentinel wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:13 am
Nibbana is unconditioned so does Atta .
Nibbana is permanent so does Atta .
The definition appear similar .
Ask the theists and they will probably affirm "God is unconditioned and permanent". What's the purpose of comparing or even equating wrong view with right view?

sentinel
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by sentinel » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:08 am

Atta ain't no God .
知人者智,自知者明。胜人有力,自胜者强。知足者富,强行有志。不失其所者久,死而不亡者寿。

SteRo
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by SteRo » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:30 am

sentinel wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:08 am
Atta ain't no God .
From the perspective of language you are right: the meaning of 'Atta' is not the meaning of 'God'. But from the perspective of reality 'Atta' and 'God' are the same: empty ideas.

Nibbana however isn't an empty idea because 'nibbana' denotes the cessation of dukkha.

chownah
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by chownah » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:39 am

Doesn't atta mean personality, ego, self? These are not unconditioned and are not permanent. These are fabricated concepts for imaginary things that arise mentally through ignorance......atta is that same old delusional sense of self.....isn't it?.....how can this be equated with nibanna?
chownah

char101
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by char101 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:54 pm

If one hasn't even attain nibanna how can one call nibanna as self? It is like saying my self is something that I don't have.

While those who have attained nibanna, attain it via elimination of self-view, which means they don't view anything as self.

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:00 pm

sentinel wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:13 am
Nibbana is unconditioned so does Atta .
Nibbana is permanent so does Atta .
The definition appear similar .

Nibbana
  • real
Atta
  • surreal




Surreal: def:2
.


🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐

Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22

sentinel
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by sentinel » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:20 pm

Ātman , attā or attan in Buddhism is the concept of self . In Thai Theravada Buddhism, for example, states Paul Williams, some modern-era Buddhist scholars have claimed that "nibbana is indeed the true Self" .
知人者智,自知者明。胜人有力,自胜者强。知足者富,强行有志。不失其所者久,死而不亡者寿。

chownah
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by chownah » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:42 pm

sentinel wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:20 pm
Ātman , attā or attan in Buddhism is the concept of self . In Thai Theravada Buddhism, for example, states Paul Williams, some modern-era Buddhist scholars have claimed that "nibbana is indeed the true Self" .
I'm confused. You ask if nibbana can be equated to atta but now you say that yes they can be equated as evidenced by paul williams (don't know who he is) saying that some modern buddhist scholars claim nibbana is the true self.

Your opening post just asserts some things about atta. Generally the things you assert are held to be wrong view and my post was meant to bring this to your attention. If you want to discuss the question whether nibbana is the true self because some people take it to be so then I think a good place to start is with the statement (which I think is correct as in "sabbe dhammā anattā") that all dhammas are not self or in pali something like all dhammas are anatta.....and also remembering that nibbana is taken to be a dhamma.....you could go look at nyanatiloka's dictionary under "anatta".....seems difficult to say that nibbana is the true self when it seems pretty clear that the buddha taught that all dhammas are empty of self.
chownah

santa100
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by santa100 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:46 pm

sentinel wrote:Can one equate nibbana to Atta?

some modern-era Buddhist scholars have claimed that "nibbana is indeed the true Self"
Then it's quite obvious that one cannot equate Nibbana to Atta because "some modern-era Buddhist scholars" said so, while there's no such idea's ever been mentioned in the Buddhist Canon.

sentinel
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by sentinel » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:38 pm

Probably , because we don't know for certain what is nibbana or even atta if both actually exists . Not one of us already attained nibbana , that make us to the most mere believes in nibbana .
知人者智,自知者明。胜人有力,自胜者强。知足者富,强行有志。不失其所者久,死而不亡者寿。

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cappuccino
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Re: Can one equate nibbana to Atta ?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:17 pm

SarathW wrote: Nibbana itself is not a thing.
No, it's an element.

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