What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

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SarathW
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What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:46 am

What is the reason that only a human can attain or realise Nibbana?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

char101
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by char101 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:58 am

Devas & rupa brahmas can also attain Nibanna.

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retrofuturist
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:02 am

Greetings Sarath,

Your premise seems wrong. How can you account for the non-returner?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

SarathW
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:07 am

What I am saying is that you have to realize Nibbana as a human.
At least you should become a Sotapanna as a human.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

char101
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by char101 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:19 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:07 am
What I am saying is that you have to realize Nibbana as a human.
At least you should become a Sotapanna as a human.
Devas can also become a sotapanna.
And while this discourse was being spoken, the stainless, immaculate vision of the Dhamma arose in Sakka, lord of gods: “Everything that has a beginning has an end.” And also for another 80,000 deities.

https://suttacentral.net/dn21/en/sujato

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Alīno
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by Alīno » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:24 am

If my memory is good, it's said that it's The Buddha that can manifest only in humain world conditions... But Iam not sure :shrug:
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:33 am

Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:07 am
What I am saying is that you have to realize Nibbana as a human.
At least you should become a Sotapanna as a human.
Oh OK. I see what you're saying, but I'd be wary of that assumption too...
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:The insight of a stream-enterer into the truths of causality on the one hand, and of the Deathless on the other, is accurate as far as it goes, but it does not equal the intensity of the insight of the arahant — one who has reached the final level of awakening. The differences between the two are suggested in the following simile.
SN 12:68 wrote:][Ven. Narada:] "My friend, although I have seen properly with right discernment, as it actually is present, that 'The cessation of becoming is Unbinding,' still I am not an arahant whose effluents are ended. It's as if there were a well along a road in a desert, with neither rope nor water bucket. A man would come along overcome by heat, oppressed by the heat, exhausted, dehydrated, & thirsty. He would look into the well and would have knowledge of 'water,' but he would not dwell touching it with his body. In the same way, although I have seen properly with right discernment, as it actually is present, that 'The cessation of becoming is Unbinding,' still I am not an arahant whose effluents are ended."

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

form
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by form » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:43 am

Alīno wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:24 am
If my memory is good, it's said that it's The Buddha that can manifest only in humain world conditions... But Iam not sure :shrug:
Think I saw that before also if I remember correctly.

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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:07 am

I believe that beings in Brahama world can not attain Nibbana.
Perhaps the being should have a body to realize Nibbana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Bundokji
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by Bundokji » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:33 pm

The human realm is presented as a balanced state between higher realms which experience pleasure and lower realms which experience pain. As such, this can be conducive to discovering the middle way.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by salayatananirodha » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:17 pm

wrong
non-returners attain nibbāna without ever returning to the human world
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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Bundokji
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by Bundokji » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:45 pm

salayatananirodha wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:17 pm
wrong
non-returners attain nibbāna without ever returning to the human world
If a non-returner is destined to nibbana without ever returning to the human world, then why not all beings in the higher realms (or gods or whatever) are not all destined to nibbana without ever returning to the human realm? what is it that makes the case of the non-returner so unique that he does not have to return to the human realm while other deities can go to lower realms?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by DNS » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:16 pm

Animals - woeful realm, eat or be eaten, constantly on guard for predators or looking for the next kill for your food.
Devas - they can realize nibbana from the deva realms, for example the non-returners from suddhavasa.

Devas or humans can realize nibbana.

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Sam Vara
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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:36 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:45 pm
salayatananirodha wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:17 pm
wrong
non-returners attain nibbāna without ever returning to the human world
If a non-returner is destined to nibbana without ever returning to the human world, then why not all beings in the higher realms (or gods or whatever) are not all destined to nibbana without ever returning to the human realm? what is it that makes the case of the non-returner so unique that he does not have to return to the human realm while other deities can go to lower realms?
Maybe they have a little label attached: "Non-returner. Do not forward to the lower realms"

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Re: What is the reason that only a human can attain Nibbana?

Post by binocular » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:00 pm

DNS wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:16 pm
Devas or humans can realize nibbana.
Could someone please do a nice infographic or chart depicting all the possible permutations, so that we can reference it with ease? (Or maybe it already exists?)

if human attains stream entry --> rebirth in ... or ...

if human attains once-return --> rebirth in ... or ...

if deva attains ... --> rebirth in ... or ...

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