Monastics and suicide

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
thepea
Posts: 1265
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:08 am

tamdrin wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:55 am
thepea wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:03 am
tamdrin wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:40 am
Can someone tell me which monk committed suicide? Is there any article or any more information? That is terribly sad...
Bhikkhu Sammahita,
there is another thread with that information, I’m sure someone can provide a link.


I haven't been able to find it. If you could kindly provide the link...
Sorry I don’t know how to do that, limited computer skills.

thepea
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:27 am

Chanh Dao wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:47 am


The organization bare minimum had a responsibility to this young woman. Its inexcusable if you ask me.

She asked for help and support multiple times and was ignored.

Dhamma organizations like Goenka have a huge responsibility to take care of people like her if they ask for help.

Maybe not legally but it's the right thing to do.

So I never advise new people to go into a 10 day visspasanaa and I dont think very highly of the institution.
I didn’t read that she was ignored, but often students who just finished their first course are volunteering and answering the phones. They cannot give meditation advice and often the assistant teachers of a particular course have left for home shortly after its completion.
From what I read she had talked to a teacher and they were trying to find one whom she would resonate with.

Huge responsibility??? What should they have done that they did not?

Did you personally have a bad experience at a course?

thepea
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:28 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:55 am
thepea wrote:
cappuccino wrote:

not just reading, having insight

learning the way things really are
So that comes from reading?
it was oral

same words, same meaning, same result
Sorry I’m not following.

thepea
Posts: 1265
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:33 am

binocular wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:56 am
thepea wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:59 am
I’m not a Sutta guy, I’m an experience guy
So you make claims about the Dhamma and the Buddha, and you have entirely private standards for doing so.

This is a Theravada forum. The Pali Canon in one of the main authorities here. Your views belong to the "Connections to other paths" section, at most.
It’s not that I haven’t read them or studied them, but I have no interest in quoting sutras to express my point of view. I prefer to just talk to members here.
I’m not a Theravada Buddhist, I recieved dhamma at goenka course and I just like to practice dhamma without being linked to any religion.

thepea
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:56 am

binocular wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:21 am
thepea wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:28 am
So I don’t need to practice sila, I just need to read about it?
It's ironic that you emphasise sila, but have no qualms about making claims about the Dhamma and the Buddha without canonical evidence ...
Not following your point?

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cappuccino
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:10 pm

thepea wrote: Sorry, I’m not following.
the teaching is to read

meditation isn't even necessary

Chanh Dao
Posts: 135
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by Chanh Dao » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:15 pm

thepea wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:27 am
Chanh Dao wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:47 am


The organization bare minimum had a responsibility to this young woman. Its inexcusable if you ask me.

She asked for help and support multiple times and was ignored.

Dhamma organizations like Goenka have a huge responsibility to take care of people like her if they ask for help.

Maybe not legally but it's the right thing to do.

So I never advise new people to go into a 10 day visspasanaa and I dont think very highly of the institution.
I didn’t read that she was ignored, but often students who just finished their first course are volunteering and answering the phones. They cannot give meditation advice and often the assistant teachers of a particular course have left for home shortly after its completion.
From what I read she had talked to a teacher and they were trying to find one whom she would resonate with.

Huge responsibility??? What should they have done that they did not?

Did you personally have a bad experience at a course?

The general idea of shoving a bunch of westerners with zero experience into a 10 day course is a bit risky in general.

As far as their responsibility they should of done everything possible to help this person.

The goenka organization should have a team at the ready for these kinds of situations. Not relying on some random teachers email address or phone number for in this case a life threatening situation.

Anyway, I wasn't there. When I did a goenka it felt haphazard, loosely organized, and cultishly focused on old video recordings.

Im not inherently against goenka or the retreats but that's not how I'd organize them and yes I think they have a serious responsibility to the people they get involved in these retreats and what happens to them while they are on retreat.

Do they legally have a responsibility for another person's mind? No. But they should be prepared for these kinds of situations and have thoughtful and contemplative approaches to helping people having serious issues during or after a retreat.

It's just my view on it

thepea
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:35 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:10 pm
thepea wrote: Sorry, I’m not following.
the teaching is to read

meditation isn't even necessary
In Buddha’s time they did not read scriptures. They meditated. Or am I missing something?

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cappuccino
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:55 pm

thepea wrote: In Buddha’s time they did not read scriptures. They meditated. Or am I missing something?
the scriptures are just what Buddha was teaching

the meditation is just meditating on his teaching

thepea
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:37 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:55 pm
thepea wrote: In Buddha’s time they did not read scriptures. They meditated. Or am I missing something?
the scriptures are just what Buddha was teaching

the meditation is just meditating on his teaching
Good luck with that.

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SDC
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by SDC » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:42 pm

:focus:

thepea
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by thepea » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:56 pm

Chanh Dao wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:15 pm

The general idea of shoving a bunch of westerners with zero experience into a 10 day course is a bit risky in general.

As far as their responsibility they should of done everything possible to help this person.

The goenka organization should have a team at the ready for these kinds of situations. Not relying on some random teachers email address or phone number for in this case a life threatening situation.

Anyway, I wasn't there. When I did a goenka it felt haphazard, loosely organized, and cultishly focused on old video recordings.

Im not inherently against goenka or the retreats but that's not how I'd organize them and yes I think they have a serious responsibility to the people they get involved in these retreats and what happens to them while they are on retreat.

Do they legally have a responsibility for another person's mind? No. But they should be prepared for these kinds of situations and have thoughtful and contemplative approaches to helping people having serious issues during or after a retreat.

It's just my view on it
Usually 50% of each course is old students of varying levels of experience, new students make up the remainder. There is always some risk with new students, but what what I’ve witnessed appropriate care and attention is given to those struggling.
In more permanent established centres there are many very experienced teachers both male and female ready to assist. But they are limited to wahat they can do with severe mental imbalances, this is where the application process is given great importance. Whether this was done or not done in this case I can’t say, I don’t know the situation as it played out.

What would you do differently as to running a meditation retreat?

It is cultishly focused on old video tapes, but it works very well.

I don’t feel they are negligent at all. But it is volunteer based and some people volunteering are clearly nuts. IMO. :tongue:

tamdrin
Posts: 264
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by tamdrin » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:35 am

Can someone provide me with the link where I can get more info about this monk and the circumstances of his death?

Thanks.

tamdrin
Posts: 264
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by tamdrin » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:53 am

tamdrin wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:35 am
Can someone provide me with the link where I can get more info about this monk and the circumstances of his death?

Thanks.
ok I found it, so never mind!

Chanh Dao
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:39 am

Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by Chanh Dao » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:00 am

thepea wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:56 pm
Chanh Dao wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:15 pm

The general idea of shoving a bunch of westerners with zero experience into a 10 day course is a bit risky in general.

As far as their responsibility they should of done everything possible to help this person.

The goenka organization should have a team at the ready for these kinds of situations. Not relying on some random teachers email address or phone number for in this case a life threatening situation.

Anyway, I wasn't there. When I did a goenka it felt haphazard, loosely organized, and cultishly focused on old video recordings.

Im not inherently against goenka or the retreats but that's not how I'd organize them and yes I think they have a serious responsibility to the people they get involved in these retreats and what happens to them while they are on retreat.

Do they legally have a responsibility for another person's mind? No. But they should be prepared for these kinds of situations and have thoughtful and contemplative approaches to helping people having serious issues during or after a retreat.

It's just my view on it
Usually 50% of each course is old students of varying levels of experience, new students make up the remainder. There is always some risk with new students, but what what I’ve witnessed appropriate care and attention is given to those struggling.
In more permanent established centres there are many very experienced teachers both male and female ready to assist. But they are limited to wahat they can do with severe mental imbalances, this is where the application process is given great importance. Whether this was done or not done in this case I can’t say, I don’t know the situation as it played out.

What would you do differently as to running a meditation retreat?

It is cultishly focused on old video tapes, but it works very well.

I don’t feel they are negligent at all. But it is volunteer based and some people volunteering are clearly nuts. IMO. :tongue:
That's quite a sweet response.

What would I do different? Well first of all I wouldn't.

Im not in a position to want to take on that level of responsibility. I don't feel it would be appropriate.

But for discussion sake or maybe more so just to share myself.

Vastly different.
Group councils.
Qualified therapist on hand.
Very lax and open practice schedule.

Many things, but not something im considering currently.

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