4TN are not for everyone

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:33 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:30 pm
I understand the teaching.
https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/life-is-suffering/
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:30 pm
I do not praise even the shortest spell of existence...
Existence (bhava) is an asava or mental phenomena (rather than materialistic material physical existence).
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by cappuccino » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:44 pm

"Bhikkhus, it is through not realizing, through not penetrating the Four Noble Truths that this long course of birth and death has been passed through and undergone by me as well as by you. What are these four? They are the noble truth of dukkha; the noble truth of the origin of dukkha; the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha;

— DN 16 (with dukkha left untranslated)
"Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"

Simsapa Sutta
:shrug:

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:49 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:44 pm
"Bhikkhus, it is through not realizing, through not penetrating the Four Noble Truths that this long course of birth and death has been passed through and undergone by me as well as by you. What are these four? They are the noble truth of dukkha; the noble truth of the origin of dukkha; the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha;

— DN 16 (with dukkha left untranslated)
Looks like another fake Buddha quote.
Catunnaṃ, bhikkhave, ariyasaccānaṃ ananubodhā appaṭivedhā evamidaṃ dīghamaddhānaṃ sandhāvitaṃ saṃsaritaṃ mamañceva tumhākañca.

https://suttacentral.net/dn16/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by cappuccino » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:52 pm

DooDoot wrote: Looks like another fake Buddha quote.
keep being a troll

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:55 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:52 pm
keep being a troll
The words "birth" ("jati") & "death" ("marana") are not found in the Pali. The translation is fake.
Catunnaṃ, bhikkhave, ariyasaccānaṃ ananubodhā appaṭivedhā evamidaṃ dīghamaddhānaṃ sandhāvitaṃ saṃsaritaṃ mamañceva tumhākañca.

DN 16
Regardless, "birth" & "death" are not necessarily "material" or "physical". Even Buddhaghosa said this in his Visuddhimagga; when he said the word "jati" has many meanings. It seems like your views are "materialism"; where you take "birth" & "death" to be material or physical.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by cappuccino » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:01 pm

DooDoot wrote: The translation is fake.
or your understanding is at variance to the teaching

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:02 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:01 pm
or your understanding is at variance to the teaching
You have not quoted any teachings, so far, but only your personal materialistic interpretations. Contrary to your posts:

1. The Buddha did not teach "life is suffering".

2. The Buddha did not say "bhava" means "life".

3. The Buddha used the words "jati" & "marana" in various ways.

4. The quote from DN 16 does not include the words "birth" & "death".

5. I have not posted anything that is at variance to the teaching.

:smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DNS » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:04 pm

Viachh wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:58 am
(a) It makes no sense to apply everyday common sense to 4TN,

(b) just as it makes no sense to apply Newtonian laws to the level of elementary particles at which the laws of quantum physics operate.
I have labeled your argument with a & b. It is a false analogy. Your (b) might be correct; perhaps it makes no sense to apply Newtonian laws to quantum physics, but that is not a good analogy for (a) and makes no point.
Thus, the information embedded in . . .
Therefore, your conclusion doesn't follow.

You don't start the journey with the end-goal. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by cappuccino » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:05 pm

DooDoot wrote: 5. I have not posted anything that is at variance to the teaching.
this teaching is not for everyone

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:07 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:05 pm
this teaching is not for everyone
The teaching must be understood before the above assessment is made. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by cappuccino » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:26 pm

The Right View of Rebirth
Ajahn Punnadhammo discusses the necessity of holding the right view of rebirth for Buddhist practice.
The Buddha himself says that he sees no single factor so responsible for the arising of unwholesome states of mind as wrong view, and no factor so helpful for the arising of wholesome states of mind as right view. Again, he says that there is no single factor so responsible for the suffering of living beings as wrong view, and no factor so potent in promoting the good of living beings as right view (AN 1:16.2)

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DooDoot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:30 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:26 pm
The Right View of Rebirth
Ajahn Punnadhammo discusses the necessity of holding the right view of rebirth for Buddhist practice.
Four noble truths is not about 'rebirth'. The most common word translated as 'rebirth', namely, 'upapajjati', is not found in the four noble truths. For those misrepresenting the Dhamma, the Buddha said:
O foolish man, have misrepresented us by what you personally have wrongly grasped. You have undermined your own (future) and have created much demerit. This, foolish man, will bring you much harm and suffering for a long time.
:|
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by cappuccino » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:39 am

cappuccino wrote:
"Now when the disciple of the noble ones has arrived at this purity of equanimity & mindfulness, he recollects his manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two... five, ten... fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion:

'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.'

Thus he recollects his manifold past lives in their modes & details.
Potaliya Sutta: To Potaliya
:shrug:

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by cappuccino » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:40 am

The spiritual faculty of discriminating wisdom must be complemented with that of faith or, in the words of the Buddha, it becomes “cunning, which is as hard to cure as a disease caused by medicine.”
The Right View of Rebirth

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Re: 4TN are not for everyone

Post by DooDoot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:42 am

cappuccino wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:40 am
The Right View of Rebirth
:focus: Four noble truths is not about 'rebirth'.
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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