Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

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justindesilva
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by justindesilva » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:09 am

SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm
what this Ven. Gotama is trying to explain is that wholesomeness or unwholesomeness in the act of eating eggs lies on the tanha ( greed) for the taste of the eggs.
Will this apply to other food as well. (say rice)?
Sutta or Vinaya does not say that breaking an egg equal to breaking the first precept Vinaya.
Do they?
This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta." As it is lengthy may I request downloading it to read.

SarathW
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by SarathW » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 am

This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta.
Could someone give the Sutta reference and link to Sutta Central?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

justindesilva
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by justindesilva » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:21 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 am
This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta.
Could someone give the Sutta reference and link to Sutta Central?
Please try Sn 2.2 : Amagandha sutta

binocular
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by binocular » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:36 am

DNS wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 am
And honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed
That is true only for some traditional ways of producing milk and honey, but not for industrial ones.
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Aloka
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by Aloka » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:05 am

DNS wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 am
And honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed

Cows need to produce calves in order to be able to give milk. The calves are taken away from their mothers and killed when very young for their meat (veal)

From the website "Compassion in World Farming":
Veal is the meat from calves, mostly pure-bred male dairy calves.

In many countries, including the UK, veal production is closely linked to the dairy industry; male dairy calves cannot produce milk and are often considered unsuitable for beef production.

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm-animals/co ... ves/#start

I used to live next door to a farm years ago and it was a very sad cycle of life for the poor creatures.


.

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DNS
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by DNS » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:47 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:36 am
DNS wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 am
And honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed
That is true only for some traditional ways of producing milk and honey, but not for industrial ones.
Aloka wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:05 am
DNS wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:55 am
And honey and milk are animal products like eggs where no being is killed
Cows need to produce calves in order to be able to give milk. The calves are taken away from their mothers and killed when very young for their meat (veal)
Yes, I agree with you both. I was providing more of the buddhist perspective on the issue, which has more to do with direct intent. It is not the intent of the egg consumer what happens at the farm beyond the eggs being taken from the hens.

But sometimes we need to look beyond buddhist ethics and consider the big picture. I like Bhante Sujato's essay where he talks of ahimsa in general and asks, "why do what you can get away with?" in terms of our diet choices when a more non-violent alternative is available. So that is why I try to eat vegan as much as possible and lacto-ovo vegetarian only occasionally and no meat at any time.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm
Sutta or Vinaya does not say that breaking an egg equal to breaking the first precept Vinaya.
Do they?
The Vinaya Piṭaka doesn't mention eggs at all, except as the vehicle for two similes. The judgment of Vinaya scholars regarding eggs is derived inferentially from what the texts say about oviparous generation, abortion and the the circumstances in which meat is or is not allowable.
SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 am
This question could be answered by "Amagandha sutta.
Could someone give the Sutta reference and link to Sutta Central?
The Amagandha Sutta is irrelevant, for it's merely about the consumption of meat not being a defilement; it's not about killing animals for meat or cooking eggs.

Sinhala
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/si/snp2.2

English
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/snp2.2
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

SarathW
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by SarathW » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:45 pm

(of an animal) producing young by means of eggs which are hatched after they have been laid by the parent, as in birds.

Thank you, Bhante.
Does it appear that your opinion is that prohibition of eggs comming from Vinaya indirectly?
How then the fertilised and unfertilised egg idea came from?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

justindesilva
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:42 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm
Sutta or Vinaya does not say that breaking an egg equal to breaking the first precept Vinaya.
Do they?
The Vinaya Piṭaka doesn't mention eggs at all, except as the vehicle for two similes. The judgment of Vinaya scholars regarding eggs is derived inferentially from what the texts say about oviparous generation, abortion and the the circumstances in which meat is or is not allowable.

The Amagandha Sutta is irrelevant, for it's merely about the consumption of meat not being a defilement; it's not about killing animals for meat or cooking eggs.

Sinhala
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/si/snp2.2

English
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/snp2.2
Please note that in 4th para of amagandha sutta is written that destroying living beings etc is a defilement , and is beyond eating meat .
It has to be verified however whether eggs are counted as a living being or not. There are arguments for and agsinst . Yet the egg consists of a flesh or gel with its initial nervous system. Just as a baby getting out from the womb the chick coming out of the shell starts breathing oxygen giving its life.

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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by Srilankaputra » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:36 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:05 am
chownah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:32 pm
binocular wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:04 am
Sorry for bringing this up again. But I would like to apologise since I was the originator of any conflict in this thread. I think i understand my error. :anjali: :anjali: :anjali:
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

sentinel
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by sentinel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:04 am

I see that the question is , why don't Buddha allows vegetarianism , that would solve the case .
I don't think Buddha were blinded to actually see the so called bad recycling in consumption and raising the livestock .
:coffee:

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DNS
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by DNS » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:15 am

sentinel wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:04 am
I see that the question is , why don't Buddha allows vegetarianism , that would solve the case .
I don't think Buddha were blinded to actually see the so called bad recycling in consumption and raising the livestock .
The Buddha does allow it. One can be a vegetarian and Buddhist. The difference is that he doesn't require it.

See the great vegetarian debate:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229

sentinel
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Re: Is it wholesome to eat unfertilised eggs?

Post by sentinel » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:26 am

DNS wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:15 am
sentinel wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:04 am
I see that the question is , why don't Buddha allows vegetarianism , that would solve the case .
I don't think Buddha were blinded to actually see the so called bad recycling in consumption and raising the livestock .
The Buddha does allow it. One can be a vegetarian and Buddhist. The difference is that he doesn't require it.

See the great vegetarian debate:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229
Hi Dns ,

I supposed Buddha should ask the disciples to become vegetarian , he surely know the Risks there for sentient beings of getting slaughter because of his disciples consumption .
:coffee:

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