what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:22 pm

confusedlayman wrote:
cappuccino wrote: you're speaking of annihilation, not Nirvana
but if there is any consciousness u propose then are u not falling into net of craving?
"consciousness without feature"

Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous

confusedlayman
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:03 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:22 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
cappuccino wrote: you're speaking of annihilation, not Nirvana
but if there is any consciousness u propose then are u not falling into net of craving?
"consciousness without feature"

Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous
do you think "consciousness without feature" exist?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:10 pm

confusedlayman wrote:
cappuccino wrote:
confusedlayman wrote:

but if there is any consciousness u propose then are u not falling into net of craving?
"consciousness without feature"

Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous
do you think "consciousness without feature" exist?
yes, the teaching isn't "no self"

but everyone thinks it's "no self"

that's why they think of annihilation

On Self, No Self, and Not-self

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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:11 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:10 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
cappuccino wrote:

"consciousness without feature"

Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous
do you think "consciousness without feature" exist?
yes, the teaching isn't "no self"

but everyone thinks it's "no self"

that's why they think of annihilation

On Self, No Self, and Not-self
if it exist, then from what time period it exist? how it come in to existence? on what conditions it exist? is It changing or un changing?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:14 pm

wait, I never said the teaching is "self"

:quote:
Last edited by cappuccino on Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:18 pm

"Now then, Venerable Gotama, is there a self?"

When this was said, the Blessed One was silent.

"Then is there no self?"

A second time, the Blessed One was silent.
:buddha1:

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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:28 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:14 pm
wait, I never said the teaching is "self"

:quote:
then it also cease along similar like other consciousness. hence its not different from other consciousness. u call it self or non self or don't call it any name.. it just comes and goes and don't survive. if it has to survive, it should depend on conditions if im not wrong.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:30 pm

you exist, why would you not exist?

can you imagine not existing?

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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:42 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:30 pm
you exist, why would you not exist?

can you imagine not existing?
5 aggregates work together and create living experience. if I die after attaining final goal (which I hope to lol), then 5 aggregates disintegrate without reappearing.

conciousness/awareness also cease as it is dependent on other factors. when there is no awareness, there is no concept/experience. that is end of stress. why that is end of stress? because it is where nothing touches. no phenomena gets footing there because there is no world, no not-world, no anything, no experience. since its devoid of anything, u can't call it self or non-self. u can give conventional name but can't mean anything.

even when u r alive, nothing exist same for two moments.

can u imagine non existing? with normal thinking I can't. if u imagine non existent state, it is still fabrication. if u in a state like deep anaesthesia, u can remember the state after u come out of it. when there is no awareness/conciousness even if life exist or don't exist u can't cognise, so experientially u can confirm if u passed beyond 8th jhana, but u should not believe what I post and check for yourself. I myself don't have proper jhana, but I am intectually if u think, still ceasing of consciousness/awareness doesnt bring another consciousness, even if it exist, it won't be in your experience.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:44 pm

in many words you're speaking of annihilation

the state of mind called Nirvana is something, not nothing

(it's a state of mind)

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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:58 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:44 pm
in many words you're speaking of annihilation

the state of mind called Nirvana is something, not nothing

(it's a state of mind)
I speak of annihilation of things that change because getting rid of them is the goal not to cling to them.

If there is anything that exist independent of anything? if so. then u r perceiving with 5 aggregates which will surely disintegrate and no cognition of independent things experience will be there even if something like that exist.

u r aware of buddha statue = buddha statue is there and ur 5 aggregates function to see it.

in above example, if 5 agrregates not working/not present means for u no experience at all even if statue is there. replace the statue with "luminous conciseness" so even if it exist as u imagine, still u will go unconcoiusn like state because previously the consciousness u use to cognise won't be there as its part of 5 aggregates.

if u say that luminous consciousness is self aware, self thinking, then u should be able to think without brain/ during deep sleep where brain function is limited.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)


confusedlayman
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:03 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:59 pm
:shrug:
see there r many Sutta that describes it. I will post tomorrow reference if u want.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:05 pm

confusedlayman wrote:
cappuccino wrote::shrug:
see there r many Sutta that describes it. I will post tomorrow reference if u want.
I'm just not willing to discuss

confusedlayman
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:19 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:05 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
cappuccino wrote::shrug:
see there r many Sutta that describes it. I will post tomorrow reference if u want.
I'm just not willing to discuss
ok. if u think I am understanding wrong, pls guide me.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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