what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Alīno
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by Alīno » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:48 pm

As i understand it, a nature of citta compare to fabrications is of same nature as :
A hole of a donut and the donut itself
A 0 and the 1 (or 0,000...01)
A silence and noise
A white paper and a written word
A beach and a vawe
A peace and agitation
A non suffering and suffering
A non fabricated and fabricated

Where goes a hole of a donut while this one is eaten?

There is no "personal" citta, it's anatta, but all personal traits and fabrications lies on the surface of the citta without penetrating it, as bubbles on the surface of a soap water, as 0,0000...001 will never penetrate 0, there is no contact between fabricated and unfabricated as there is no contact between two shores of a river, that why it's called a Refuge.

Consciousness is what lies between citta and fabrications, what lies between pure and unpure, between fabricated and unfabricated, while the mind is freed from fabrications, with the end of fabrications there is the end of consciousness and suffering.

Time and consciousness are products of anicca.

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:44 pm

Nwad wrote: As i understand it, there is the end of consciousness and suffering.
you're speaking of annihilation, not Nirvana

chownah
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by chownah » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:14 am

cappuccino wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:29 am
consciousness is conditioned, it can be unconditioned
No it can't!!

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:17 am

chownah wrote:
cappuccino wrote: consciousness is conditioned, it can be unconditioned
No it can't!!
there is only consciousness & mind to work with

Alīno
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by Alīno » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:38 am

cappuccino wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:44 pm
Nwad wrote: As i understand it, there is the end of consciousness and suffering.
you're speaking of annihilation, not Nirvana
Sense consciousness is like arms, without arms you can't hold things, you can't lift them, without holding and lifting them there is no wight, without weight there is no dukkha. Sense consciousness is dukkha.
I can mistake, it's only speculations ;)

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:37 am

Nwad wrote: Sense consciousness is dukkha.
I can mistake, it's only speculations
consciousness doesn't have to be stressful

Alīno
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by Alīno » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:34 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:37 am
Nwad wrote: Sense consciousness is dukkha.
I can mistake, it's only speculations
consciousness doesn't have to be stressful
I think we just don't understand each other terminology ;)
I speak about SENSE consciousness end, not what we call "citta" end.

Sense consciousness is dukkha by its nature.

Iam sure you are agree with that statement ;) Because only ignorant (of it's true nature) peoples find sens consciousness pleasurable... So with the end of duality, with the end of object/subject there is the end of sens consciousness, because stream of consciousness it's what lies between two shores, it what lies between 0 and 1, and when the 1 is abandoned there is no more object, so there is no more consciousness, no more fabrications, with the end of fabrications comes the end of dukkha and the end of sense consciousness.

As I understand it, but it still only speculations ;) :anjali:

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:43 pm

Nwad wrote: As I understand it, but it still only speculations
please quote scripture

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manas
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by manas » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:15 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:32 am
chownah wrote: Consciouness is a fabrication....all fabrications are impermanent...so consciousness itself is impermanent.
sheer nonsense
Please explain why you think so? Have you ever experienced consciousness as an independent entity, standing alone, not in dependence upon something else that is to be cognized?
Upaya Sutta SN 22:53 wrote:“Were someone to say, ‘I will describe a coming, a going, a passing away, an arising, a growth, an increase, or a proliferation of consciousness apart from form, from feeling, from perception, from fabrications,’ that would be impossible.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_53.html
Of course, no need to merely take this on faith alone; take a good look and find out for yourself.
Last edited by manas on Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Like a merchant with a small
but well-laden caravan
–a dangerous road,

like a person who loves life
–a poison,

one should avoid
–evil deeds.

(Dhammapada 123)


sentinel
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by sentinel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:28 pm

6 types of consciousness .
Which consciousness that one is talking about ?
All of them ?
:coffee:

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:29 pm

manas wrote: Please explain why you think so?
Another interpretation equates the luminosity of the mind with the "consciousness without feature"

Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous

Alīno
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by Alīno » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:05 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:43 pm
Nwad wrote: As I understand it, but it still only speculations
please quote scripture
I think there is many suttas where Buddha say that sense consciousness is anicca dukkha and anatta as 4 others focuses of identity (khandhas)...

_/\_

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:09 pm

Nwad wrote:
cappuccino wrote:
Nwad wrote: As I understand it, but it still only speculations
please quote scripture
I think there is many suttas where Buddha say that sense consciousness is anicca dukkha and anatta
yet the goal isn't annihilation

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cappuccino
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by cappuccino » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:17 pm

Nwad wrote: I speak about SENSE consciousness end, not what we call "citta" end.
k

confusedlayman
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Re: what's the nature of consciousness, and its relationship with time

Post by confusedlayman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:21 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:44 pm
Nwad wrote: As i understand it, there is the end of consciousness and suffering.
you're speaking of annihilation, not Nirvana
how? unconscious state is where there is no consciousness. in nirvana there is no consciousness. u can call it what ever u want but if there is any consciousness u propose then are u not falling into net of craving?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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