Why Buddha never state which part of us is mind sense base ?

[sentinel]

Which part of us can be identified as mind base ?
It is peculiar that we can not be certain of mind base like the other base ?

[chownah]

Some people have said that the buddha associated the mind with the heart but I haven't seen the sutta which supports this view.....I think that usually people associate the mind with the brain and I'm pretty sure that there is not sutta which support this because I think that the brain was not widely understood at the time of the buddha.
chownah

[sunnat]

Mahanama Sutta

"Suppose a man were to throw a jar of ghee or a jar of oil into a deep lake of water, where it would break. There the shards & jar-fragments would go down, while the ghee or oil would rise upward and separate out. In the same way, if one's mind has long been nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, nurtured with learning, nurtured with relinquishment, nurtured with discernment, then when the body... is eaten by crows, vultures, hawks, dogs, hyenas, or all sorts of creatures, nevertheless the mind... rises upward and separates out."

the mind is in the jar.? the ghee is the brain.?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Sentinel,

Which part of us can be identified as mind base ?
It is peculiar that we can not be certain of mind base like the other base ?

Precisely that you conceive of it as "mind base" means you are already conceiving it as a "me" or "mine", separately from mind-objects.

Nothing should be identified as "mind base", because when there is "mind base" there will be "mind objects", and "contact"(phassa) between the two. Bringing about the cessation of phassa (rather than bringing about its arising) is the pathway to the cessation of dukkha.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul.

[Sam Vara]

Greetings Sentinel,
Precisely that you conceive of it as "mind base" means you are already conceiving it as a "me" or "mine", separately from mind-objects.

Nothing should be identified as "mind base", because when there is "mind base" there will be "mind objects", and "contact"(phassa) between the two. Bringing about the cessation of phassa (rather than bringing about its arising) is the pathway to the cessation of dukkha.

Well expressed, and very similar to a sutta which I am trying to recall. Is this a paraphrase of a particular sutta you had in mind?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Sam,

Well expressed, and very similar to a sutta which I am trying to recall. Is this a paraphrase of a particular sutta you had in mind?

Thanks. Not consciously, but if you do find the sutta you're thinking of, I'd be keen to see it... both for the benefit of this conversation, and other ones where the meaning and causes of "phassa" come to be discussed.

Metta,
Paul.

[sentinel]

Greetings Sentinel,

Which part of us can be identified as mind base ?
It is peculiar that we can not be certain of mind base like the other base ?

Precisely that you conceive of it as "mind base" means you are already conceiving it as a "me" or "mine", separately from mind-objects.

Nothing should be identified as "mind base", because when there is "mind base" there will be "mind objects", and "contact"(phassa) between the two. Bringing about the cessation of phassa (rather than bringing about its arising) is the pathway to the cessation of dukkha.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul.

Unfortunately I don't know what is the mind base , so I am not conceiving something as mind base .
Didn't the Buddha taught six sense base vs six sense object ? Mind is the number six as Buddha conceived it btw .
When you said contact or phassa in the above , was it similar to what the Buddha taught " phassa " per the dependent origination ?

[SarathW]

Where is the mind base of an Arupavacara beings. (Brahma etc)
Ven. Narada mentioned Buddha has said "It depend on this very thing"
I can't support this with a Sutta.

[DooDoot]

if one's mind (cittaṃ) has long been nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, nurtured with learning, nurtured with relinquishment, nurtured with discernment, then when the body... is eaten by crows, vultures, hawks, dogs, hyenas, or all sorts of creatures, nevertheless the mind (cittaṃ) ... rises upward and separates out."

The Mahānāma Sutta refers to "citta", which is not the mind-base ("mano"). Instead, per Satipatthana/Anapanasati, "citta" appears to be an object of the mind-base rather than the mind-base.

[chownah]

Unfortunately I don't know what is the mind base , so I am not conceiving something as mind base .
Didn't the Buddha taught six sense base vs six sense object ? Mind is the number six as Buddha conceived it btw .
When you said contact or phassa in the above , was it similar to what the Buddha taught " phassa " per the dependent origination ?

I think that what retrofuturist is saying is that it doesn't really matter what you conceive of as being the mind base.....you will obtain negative results from conceiving any kind of a mind base at all....

I will add that my view is that this is because the mind base is a fabrication and it is not what is fabricated as a mind base which is important but rather it is the process of fabricating the mind base which needs to be examined.
chownah

[retrofuturist]

Greetings chownah,

Nicely said.

Spot on. 100%.



Metta,
Paul.

[santa100]

Didn't the Buddha taught six sense base vs six sense object ? Mind is the number six as Buddha conceived it btw

Correct, mind base is the 6th base, except it's not material-based like the first five. Ven. Bodhi's note citing the Abhidhamma's definition:

Mind base(ManaYatana): collective term for all classes of consciousness. One part of this base, the Life Continuum(bhavanga/store consciousness/subliminal consciousness) is the door for the arising of mind consciousness.

[SarathW]

I agree Santa.
Even other five mind bases are also a part of the mind base.
For instance the physical ear is not the ear base.

[sunnat]

If a leg, two legs, arms, various organs, the trunk, neck, lungs (replaced with pumps etc) are amputated, will there still be consciousness.? If the cranium, jaws, tounge, eyes, nose etc, is removed, will there still be consciousness? If nothing except the brain is cut out, will there still be consciousness..? Is there less mind if a finger is cut off.?

[DooDoot]

If a leg, two legs, arms, various organs, the trunk, neck, lungs (replaced with pumps etc) are amputated, will there still be consciousness.? If the cranium, jaws, tounge, eyes, nose etc, is removed, will there still be consciousness? If nothing except the brain is cut out, will there still be consciousness..? Is there less mind if a finger is cut off.?

Buddha-Dhamma refers to six-fold consciousness. If a finger is cut off, the result will be the loss of body-consciousness operating via that finger.