Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

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SarathW
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Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by SarathW » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 pm

Why birth and death has one to one relationship?
Why can't we reborn as multiple personalities (more than one person)?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

dharmacorps
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by dharmacorps » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:52 pm

Hi Sarath, yes, it does seem to be true that without birth, there is not death. Buddhists would contend, death necessitates there (re)birth. Except for arahants, of course.

There are a few parts in the canon or perhaps the commentaries more likely where one can be reborn where it is more than one discrete entity, but not technically a separate "personality". But if you think too much about that stuff, it is kind of confusing! :anjali:

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DooDoot
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by DooDoot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:33 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 pm
Why can't we reborn as multiple personalities (more than one person)?
'Rebirth' is 'upapajjati', meaning to inherit or reap something similar to the same nature as the previous kamma. 'Upa' means to 'follow' or 'grow out of the former'. For example, your kamma is to cause pain by violently killing and you later inherit a similar painful traumatic result.

How is this related to "reincarnation" or rebirth of a soul or Atman ('personality')? Did the Buddha ever teach 'rebirth' separate from 'kamma'; :shrug: such as in the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna says reincarnation occurs to every person regardless of kamma?

Do you think you, SarathW, will automatically have a human rebirth? :smile:
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Nwad
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by Nwad » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:11 am

We are already reborn as "many", as form as feeling as perception as mental formations as sense consciousness... _/\_

SarathW
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by SarathW » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:18 am

Nwad wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:11 am
We are already reborn as "many", as form as feeling as perception as mental formations as sense consciousness... _/\_
Agree.
But it is not the same time.
When we see we don't hear.
It is always one though moment.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

binocular
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by binocular » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:53 pm

SarathW wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 pm
Why birth and death has one to one relationship?
Why can't we reborn as multiple personalities (more than one person)?
See also:

Subject: Can one be reborn into several beings at the same time?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

justindesilva
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by justindesilva » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:31 pm

SarathW wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 pm
Why birth and death has one to one relationship?
Why can't we reborn as multiple personalities (more than one person)?
Only the person who is born dies and not anyone else.

Dinsdale
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:05 pm

SarathW wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 pm
Why birth and death has one to one relationship?
Why can't we reborn as multiple personalities (more than one person)?
The suttas say that we're "heirs to our kamma", which seems to exclude the possibilty of sharing.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:37 pm

.


Even in simultaneous multiple personality disorder, there is only one person, if at all.


.
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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cappuccino
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:55 pm

DooDoot wrote: in the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna says reincarnation occurs to every person
(he's telling the truth)

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:29 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:55 pm
DooDoot wrote: in the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna says reincarnation occurs to every person
(he's telling the truth)
May I know ... what exactly do you mean by "the truth"; the exact point you accept as "the truth"?
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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cappuccino
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:20 am

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: May I know ... what exactly do you mean by "the truth"; the exact point you accept as "the truth"?
in the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna says reincarnation occurs to every person

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:53 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:20 am
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: May I know ... what exactly do you mean by "the truth"; the exact point you accept as "the truth"?
in the Hindu Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna says reincarnation occurs to every person
Oh, well, right. You're telling the truth. :hug:
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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DooDoot
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:10 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:55 pm
(he's telling the truth)
Are you sure? He seems to be referring to not going to hell or to the animal realm for engaging in war with & slaughtering relatives. He seems to be guaranteeing a 'human' reincarnation. This appears different to the teaching of the Buddha. :shrug:
This Self cannot be cut, burnt, wetted or dried up. It is eternal, all-pervading, stable, ancient and immovable.

The Self is unmanifest, unthinkable and unchangeable. Therefore, knowing it to be as such, you should not grieve.

But even if you think of it as being perpetually born and perpetually dying, even then, O Mighty Armed (Arjuna), you should not grieve.

Death is sure to happen to that which is born. Birth is sure to happen to that which dies. Birth and death are certainly unavoidable. Therefore you should not grieve over an inevitable occurrence.

https://www.esamskriti.com/e/Spirituali ... dge-1.aspx
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: Why birth and death has one to one relationship?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:17 am

DooDoot wrote: He seems to be guaranteeing a 'human' reincarnation.
:shrug:
Last edited by cappuccino on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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