What is nirvana/heaven?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
inyenzi
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by inyenzi » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:41 am

The problem with this is that, regardless of your belief, if there is indeed "rebirth", then parinibbana will not be reached by inducing brain death in an unawakened one.
The Buddha did not teach suicide for a reason, specifically because according to his teachings, there is "rebirth".
So, do you agree that the two concepts (parinibbana and materialist brain death) are essentially synonyms for the same "non-state", the only difference being the respective world system (samsara versus a 'one physical life then done') one lives under?

I am having great difficulty understanding what nibbana actually is. To my (western influenced) mind, I cannot see how parinibbana can be anything other than 'what it was like before someone in a physicalist world system was born'. It just seems like double-speak gobbledegook to assert parinibbana as being anything other than the permanent cessation of consciousness. There is no self that exists in this life, that is either annihilated or carried on to another state. It's just the process by which consciousness is sustained comes to an end. Basically, the very same thing as what every western materialist believes happens to them when they die!

Why devote your life, or even some part of your life to the Dhamma, when what we have here in the west is a coherent world view (scientific materialism) that accounts for far more phenomena, and has far more predictive value than essentially the mythical world view of an Indian man that lived ~2500 years ago. What is the basis for going with the latter? Blind faith?

It seems to me that people don't actually really believe in samsara. If samsara were actually the case, a human life and it's sufferings would be totally insignificant compared to the ceaseless rebirths into the brutal and visceral animal, ghost, and hell realms. I'd drop everything and ordain tomorrow.

sunnat
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by sunnat » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:59 am

Human life is 'brutal and visceral'. Any deep personal introspection will reveal this.

When you realise this you find that the Buddhas have shown the way out of this misery. By practicing correctly the path as they taught, you progressively come to realise this to be so. As you progressively become happier, suffer less, let go of complexes, there is really no need to believe in nibbana in order to progress. Until the first dip in nibbana it is a matter of faith but an entirely reasonable faith born of experience. It's pointless to try to explain something beyond mind to the mind with its limited faculties. It will always sound like a myth.

auto
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by auto » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:49 pm

inyenzi wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:41 am
There is no self that exists in this life, that is either annihilated or carried on to another state.
you go sleep every night, you are in a dream and live there as it is true, when you wake up then you think this waking reality is true and the dream was fake, so why not this world too is fake in respect to that you wake up and you are in other realm.

Simpler example is if watching horror movie and fear rises and then closing eyes the fear subsides.

you take the body too seriously, you are just so much deeply deluded that the body is so real that if death comes its the end and there is no sobering up to different realm maybe death of a body is equal to the hands what are covering your eyes and its much worse out there without the isolation of a body and you regret that you didn't develop your mind.
inyenzi wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:03 am
It is the end of this life, with no new becoming. Parinibbana is indistinguishable from the way an atheist, scientific materialist views biological death. This life is over, all that remains is the body. There is nothing further for your consciousness (i.e. it doesn't go into some heavenly or euphoric realm).
when you have some kind of ailment what affects your thinking, actions in general shapes your personality, you are most part like your parents in every possible way. Now if body dies and you don't wear it anymore then obviously noone could recognize you anymore who could only identify you with some parts what you have shown or memorized yourself to them..

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN01.html
“The body of the Tathāgata stands with the cord binding it to becoming cut through. As long as his body remains, human beings & devas will see him. But with the break-up of the body and the depletion of life, human beings & devas will see him no more.

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cappuccino
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Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:05 am

inyenzi wrote: So, do you agree that the two concepts (parinibbana and materialist brain death) are essentially synonyms for the same "non-state"
Nirvana is a state of mind

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