What is nirvana/heaven?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Aloka » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:39 pm

.

This is from the beginning of chapter one of "The Island - An anthology of the Buddha's teachings on Nibbana" by Ajahn Pasanno and Ajahn Amaro:

WHAT IS IT ?

Nibbana (Nirvana in Sanskrit) is a word that is used to describe an experience. When the heart is free of all obscurations, and is utterly in accord with nature, Ultimate Reality (Dhamma), it experiences perfect peace, joy and contentment. This set of qualities is what Nibbana describes. The purpose of this book is to outline the particular teachings of the Buddha that point to and illuminate ways that these qualities can be realized. From the Buddhist viewpoint, the realization of Nibbana is the fulfillment of the highest human potential – a potential that exists in all of us, regardless of nationality or creed.

(continues at the link)

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books9/Ajah ... Island.pdf


:anjali:

.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2908
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:32 am

"There is that dimension where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor stasis; neither passing away nor arising: without stance, without foundation, without support. This, just this, is the end of stress."

— Ud 8.1

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2908
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:36 am

There is that dimension where

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 2330
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Bundokji » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:42 am

user99 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:41 pm
What is nirvana/heaven?
A mere fantasy for those who did not realize it. :popcorn:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:38 am

cappuccino wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:42 pm
Grigoris wrote: What is this unconditioned heavenly realm you are talking about?
heavenly realms are conditioned, Nirvana realm is unconditioned
Nirvana is not a realm.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2908
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:50 pm

Grigoris wrote:
cappuccino wrote:
Grigoris wrote: What is this unconditioned heavenly realm you are talking about?
heavenly realms are conditioned, Nirvana realm is unconditioned
Nirvana is not a realm.
There is that dimension

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:07 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:50 pm
Grigoris wrote:
cappuccino wrote:

heavenly realms are conditioned, Nirvana realm is unconditioned
Nirvana is not a realm.
There is that dimension
And that kiddies is what happens when you mistake the figurative for definitive.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2908
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:09 pm

“Just as... the great ocean is vast, boundless, fills not up for all
of the streams that flow into it. Precisely so Nibbæna is vast,
boundless, fills not up for all of the living beings that pass
thereunto.
But again further, – the great ocean is all in blossom, as it were,
with the flowers of its waves, – mighty, various, unnumbered.
Precisely so Nibbæna is all in blossom, as it were, with the
Flowers of Purity, Knowledge, and Deliverance, – mighty,
various, unnumbered

“Good, Reverend Nægasena! It is even so! I agree absolutely!”
~ Miln 315-323 (abridged, E.W. Burlingame trans.)

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:09 pm

And here is the alternative translation:
Nibbāna Sutta: Parinibbana (1)
translated from the Pali by
John D. Ireland
© 1998

Thus have I heard. At one time the Lord was staying near Savatthi in the Jeta Wood at Anathapindika's monastery. On that occasion the Lord was instructing, rousing, inspiring, and gladdening the bhikkhus with a Dhamma talk connected with Nibbana, and those bhikkhus, being receptive and attentive and concentrating the whole mind, were intent on listening to Dhamma.

Then, on realizing its significance, the Lord uttered on that occasion this inspired utterance:

There is, bhikkhus, that base where there is no earth, no water, no fire, no air; no base consisting of the infinity of space, no base consisting of the infinity of consciousness, no base consisting of nothingness, no base consisting of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; neither this world nor another world nor both; neither sun nor moon. Here, bhikkhus, I say there is no coming, no going, no staying, no deceasing, no uprising. Not fixed, not movable, it has no support. Just this is the end of suffering.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:10 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:09 pm
“Just as... the great ocean is vast, boundless, fills not up for all
of the streams that flow into it. Precisely so Nibbæna is vast,
boundless, fills not up for all of the living beings that pass
thereunto.
But again further, – the great ocean is all in blossom, as it were,
with the flowers of its waves, – mighty, various, unnumbered.
Precisely so Nibbæna is all in blossom, as it were, with the
Flowers of Purity, Knowledge, and Deliverance, – mighty,
various, unnumbered

“Good, Reverend Nægasena! It is even so! I agree absolutely!”
~ Miln 315-323 (abridged, E.W. Burlingame trans.)
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34986&p=524088#p524086
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4660
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Jaroen Dhamma Cave, Mae Wang Huai Rin, Lamphun

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:11 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:17 am
salayatananirodha wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:24 pm
...nibbāna is the cessation of contact
Source?
The commentary to the Majjhe Sutta.
The Blessed One said this: “Contact, bhikkhus, is one end; the arising of contact is the second end; the cessation of contact is in the middle; and craving is the seamstress. For craving sews one to the production of this or that state of existence. It is in this way that a bhikkhu directly knows what should be directly known; fully understands what should be fully understood; and by doing so, in this very life he makes an end of suffering.”
(AN. 6:61)

Commentary:

'Phassanirodho' ti nibbānaṃ.
""'The cessation of contact' means nibbāna."
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2908
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:14 pm

Grigoris wrote: And here is the alternative translation:

There is, bhikkhus, that base where there is no earth, no water, no fire, no air; no base consisting of the infinity of space, no base consisting of the infinity of consciousness, no base consisting of nothingness, no base consisting of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; neither this world nor another world nor both; neither sun nor moon. Here, bhikkhus, I say there is no coming, no going, no staying, no deceasing, no uprising. Not fixed, not movable, it has no support. Just this is the end of suffering.
you'll notice the base of the infinity of space is mentioned

which is a heavenly realm

thus base means realm, or dimension

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:17 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:14 pm
you'll notice the base of the infinity of space is mentioned

which is a heavenly realm
It takes an insane stretch of logic to come to that conclusion.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 2908
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:20 pm

Grigoris wrote:
cappuccino wrote:you'll notice the base of the infinity of space is mentioned

which is a heavenly realm

It takes an insane stretch of logic to come to that conclusion.
well this teaching is amazing

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: What is nirvana/heaven?

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:20 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:11 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:17 am
salayatananirodha wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:24 pm
...nibbāna is the cessation of contact
Source?
The commentary to the Majjhe Sutta.
The Blessed One said this: “Contact, bhikkhus, is one end; the arising of contact is the second end; the cessation of contact is in the middle; and craving is the seamstress. For craving sews one to the production of this or that state of existence. It is in this way that a bhikkhu directly knows what should be directly known; fully understands what should be fully understood; and by doing so, in this very life he makes an end of suffering.”
(AN. 6:61)

Commentary:

'Phassanirodho' ti nibbānaṃ.
""'The cessation of contact' means nibbāna."
'How is it possible to permanently end contact?
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: form, jamescarr, robertk and 40 guests