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Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:34 am
by Keith
Do Theravadins call the Buddha 'Sakyamuni', or is this a Mahayana term? Historically, what is the earliest use of the name 'Sakyamuni'?

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:36 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Keith,

Can't comment on the origins of Sakyamuni (Sage of the Sun) but in the Suttas he may be called Gotama.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:34 am
by Keith
Thank you Paul, but what about in Theravadin countries? Are there Theravada practices in which the name Sakyamuni is used? I ask because I'd never seen it in the suttas (unsurprisingly), yet in the GCSE RE syllabus the Buddha is referred to as Sakyamuni without any caveat as to whether this title is used only in Mahayana. There are other instances in the GCSE RE syllabus where Mahayana and Theravada terms are mixed up (Bodhisattva is a big one the syllabus is confused about). I want to be able to give the RE teachers at my school a little guidance, but I lack the authority or knowledge to do so, so I was hoping someone here could perhaps help.

Is the name "Sakyamuni' used by Theravadins in Asia, for example, even though it's not found in the Pali Canon?

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:37 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Keith,
Keith wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:34 am
Is the name "Sakyamuni' used by Theravadins in Asia, for example, even though it's not found in the Pali Canon?
Chances are yes, but only in a "cross-contaminated" kind of way, akin to how you might very well find Kwan Yin statues at a Theravada temple.

I remember Lyndon Taylor once telling us that in Cambodia, he heard the Mahayana teaching of "dharmakāya" given in a Theravada setting.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:41 pm
by Grigoris
retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:37 am
Chances are yes, but only in a "cross-contaminated" kind of way, akin to how you might very well find Kwan Yin statues at a Theravada temple.
Really?

You consider Mahayana a micro-organism/bacteria that causes a harmful effect?

What about cross-pollination? Mutual exchange?
I remember Lyndon Taylor once telling us that in Cambodia, he heard the Mahayana teaching of "dharmakāya" given in a Theravada setting.

Metta,
Paul. :)
***Clutches at pearls***

Dhammakaya movement anybody?

Yogavacara?

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:48 pm
by chownah
retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:36 am
Greetings Keith,

Can't comment on the origins of Sakyamuni (Sage of the Sun) but in the Suttas he may be called Gotama.

Metta,
Paul. :)
The wikipedia article on "gautama buddha" suggests that sakyamuni came from his tribal origin (shakyan) and that it means sage of the shakyans.
chownah

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:16 pm
by Dhammanando
Keith wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:34 am
Do Theravadins call the Buddha 'Sakyamuni', or is this a Mahayana term? Historically, what is the earliest use of the name 'Sakyamuni'?
In the Pali Tipiṭaka Sakyamunī is a very minor epithet, occurring only twice in the Vinaya, once each in the Dīgha and Saṃyutta Nikāyas, and eight times in the Khuddaka Nikāya. The best known example of it is probably the fourth verse of the Ratanasutta:
khayaṃ virāgaṃ amataṃ paṇītaṃ
yadajjhagā sakyamunī samāhito
na tena dhammena samatthi kiñci
idampi dhamme ratanaṃ paṇītaṃ
etena saccena suvatthi hotu.

The waning out of lust, that wondrous state
of Deathlessness the Sakyan Sage attained
through calm and concentration of the mind—
nothing with that state can aught compare.
Yea, in the Dhamma shines this glorious gem:
By virtue of this truth, may blessing be!
(Khantipālo tr.)
In the Asian Theravāda cultural milieu I don't sense that Sakyamunī is a very widely known epithet, save among scholars, readers of Mahayana literature (e.g., Thai converts to Soka Gakkai use it all the time), and chanting enthusiasts (the Ratanasutta being a very popular paritta).

So, though the Mahayanists didn't invent 'Sakyamunī', they do appear to have originated the practice of using it as the Buddha Gotama's principal epithet.

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:22 pm
by Aloka
.

I just came across this book excerpt at the Tricyle website:

The Myth of the Historical Buddha, Is Shakyamuni more fiction than fact?

By Bernard Faure

https://tricycle.org/magazine/myth-historical-buddha/

This appears to be a PDF with the same title:

http://www.khamkoo.com/uploads/9/0/0/4/ ... ddhism.pdf

:shrug:


.

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:00 pm
by sentinel
From Asoka pillar .
Screenshot_20190807-010622~01.png
( Buddha ) ( sakyamuni )

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:50 pm
by Keith
Thank you, all. This is all very helpful.

Re: Name of the Buddha

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:22 pm
by salayatananirodha
https://suttacentral.net/dn32/en/anandajoti wrote:“May you revere Aṅgīrasa,
the glorious son of the Sakyans,
he who preached this Dhamma,
which is the dispelling of all suffering.
could this be what you're looking for?