Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

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sentinel
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Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:36 am

If you dislike certain people due to past bad experiences say for example , Japanese or Chinese , is the person consider as extremist according to Buddha's teachings ?
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SarathW
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:45 am

Buddha used the term "Mana"
Another word perhaps the Sakkaya Ditthi. (personality view)
Buddha did not stereotyped people. He helped murderers such as Angulimala and low cast people such as Sunita or prostitute Ambapali.
Buddha asked us to not to dwell in the past or the future.
Most of the present world problems are due to we dwell in the past.
We disliking certain people are due to our ignorance.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

sentinel
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:48 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:45 am
Buddha used the term "Mana"
Another word perhaps the Sakkaya Ditthi. (personality view)
Buddha did not stereotyped people. He helped murderers such as Angulimala and low cast people such as Sunita or prostitute Ambapali.
Buddha asked us to not to dwell in the past or the future.
Most of the present world problems are due to we dwell in the past.
We disliking certain people are due to our ignorance.
Well , what do you mean stereotyped people ?
If you met an drug addict and you dislike him because he harass you , and you want to be left alone , that doesn't necessarily mean one is holding biases towards him . Buddha does say not to associate with the fools .
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SarathW
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:57 am

Agree.
A drug-addicted is making my life very difficult at the moment.
But I am very kind to him, I have sympathy for him.
There are many good Buddhist (even some good monks) was into drugs (addicted) previously.
You have to assess each case on its own merits instead of stereotyping them.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dan74
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by Dan74 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:07 am

The OP sounds like an example of tribalist thinking - disliking a people as if they are all one, or treating people as if they all share some essential characteristic. But all characteristics are compounded and empty and all personality characteristics can fortunately be changed.
_/|\_

sentinel
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:13 am

Hi sarathw ,

Of course if they are not endangering your life or your family . I will be very cautious because one of my relative sometimes gets into confusion and start to destroy using knife damaging merely everything in the house .
Last edited by sentinel on Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sentinel
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:16 am

Dan74 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:07 am
The OP sounds like an example of tribalist thinking - disliking a people as if they are all one, or treating people as if they all share some essential characteristic. But all characteristics are compounded and empty and all personality characteristics can fortunately be changed.
Not necessarily , understand the context first . e.g. say you join a forum of different minded , they will treat you like enemy .
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Sam Vara
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:24 am

There are several ways to approach this. The first is that (as your response to SarathW suggests) the Buddha certainly recognised that some people were difficult and vexatious. Our difficulties and our being vexed with them might be due to our defilements, but it's a real thing, perfectly understandable in terms of the arising of unpleasant feelings for us, and to that extent it is not an "extreme". It's just what happens to humans, and a good starting point for us considering how we are to deal with such people in an appropriate way. Note how the Sabbasava Sutta allows that it is sometimes best to simply absent ourselves from what causes us further problems:
he avoids sitting in the sorts of unsuitable seats, wandering to the sorts of unsuitable habitats, and associating with the sorts of bad friends that would make his knowledgeable friends in the holy life suspect him of evil conduct. The fermentations, vexation, or fever that would arise if he were not to avoid these things do not arise for him when he avoids them. These are called the fermentations to be abandoned by avoiding.
as well as your valid point about associating with fools.

In your initial post, though, it does seem as if you were asking about stereotyping whole groups (Japanese/Chinese?) on the basis of past unpleasant experiences. There's no way we could get to make an informed judgement about every Chinese person! That's what, I think, SarathW was getting at; the Buddha seemed immune from such stereotypes.

He did, however, make generalisations based on past experiences or on hearsay:
Punna, the Sunaparanta people are fierce. They are rough. If they insult and ridicule you, what will you think?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

He also generalised about women and many other people, and in a sense all communication is based upon the ability to bundle up lots of experiences into general or universal statements. ("All vedana has such-and-such a characteristic; all intentions are like that; because of doing something, this person has a generally bad character, etc., etc.") So the Buddha presented in the suttas is not some kind of holy simpleton who assesses each situation anew. As such, stereotyping generalisations based upon unfortunate past experiences might lead us into a lot of trouble, but they are not in themselves "extreme".

Interestingly, there isn't much that I can recall from the suttas that talks about the mental process of generalising and subsuming particular experiences under universal or abstract principles of thought. The term papanca is familiar to us but this seems to refer to the reverse: proliferation, or quintuplification. I'd be interested in quotes from the suttas, or other people's ideas, about this process of inductive generalising in the Buddha's thought; the making of one or a few from the many. It happens, of course, (unless we use the short-cut of saying that the Buddha merely switched on his divine eye and saw things sub specie aeternitatis ) but I can't recall it being subjected to detailed analysis.

SarathW
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:28 am

sentinel wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:13 am
Hi sarathw ,

Of course if they are not endangering your life or your family . I will be very cautious because one of my relative sometimes gets into confusion and start to destroy using knife damaging merely everything in the house .
Agree.
I don't know how to handle a situation like that.
Perhaps I will learn some self-defense techniques.
Try to convince this person to see a doctor for help.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

sentinel
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:52 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:24 am

In your initial post, though, it does seem as if you were asking about stereotyping whole groups (Japanese/Chinese?) on the basis of past unpleasant experiences. There's no way we could get to make an informed judgement about every Chinese person!

Hi sam , I think this is not simply about generalizing but just portraying that if disliking a whole group of people amount to as an Extremist ? Because one can see sometimes among buddhist divided between themselves due to different views not to mention if the people one confronting is of various nationality . You can see Thai monks comfortable with Thai's and the white monks with same ethnic . So , if you are white probably unnoticedly you feel aversion towards other race and prefer to associate with the white , does this amount to be called an Extremist ?
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Akashad
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by Akashad » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:37 pm

sentinel wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:36 am
If you dislike certain people due to past bad experiences say for example , Japanese or Chinese , is the person consider as extremist according to Buddha's teachings ?
Some people would call that racism though i think racism is thinking one group is superior not necessarily because one has had a bad experience.It could be a result of past traumatic experiences.For example,when someone gets bitten by a dog as a child they may grow up disliking or fearing all dogs.If you check your own experiences you might think rationally maybe not ALL japanese or chinese people were bad to you.And this sorts of loosens the association you put towards certain groups.For example,one can think of a particular experience were a japanese or chinese person were nice to them and have this oh moment like oh it's not their race some people are just mean and if you break it even more you can see oh maybe they aren't Always mean,maybe it was just That particular moment.You will find those gaps.But even if they WERE ALL MEAN to you.You can tell yourself oh this will not benefit me.So you develop loving kindness.May i be free from hatred,ill will,anger,trauma etc.Your not doing it for them,your doing it to protect yourself from the greatest danger which is hatred.Your ill will is going to reserve your own corner in hell,protect yourself by not harbouring ill-will.The same way one wears protective clothing while walking through an area filled with stinging bees and hornets.You protecting yourself.

chownah
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by chownah » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:00 pm

Didn't the buddha say that one should not have ill will towards someone even if they are sawing off your arms and legs?
chownah

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Antaradhana
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by Antaradhana » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:18 pm

Harmful conviction and habits need to be eradicated. The ill will is this one of the shackles, closing to progress along the Path.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

sentinel
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:54 pm

chownah wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:00 pm
Didn't the buddha say that one should not have ill will towards someone even if they are sawing off your arms and legs?
chownah
Text please , sawing off arms only in the story .
Non ill will yes , how would you react if challenge by other ? No feeling of aversion ?
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chownah
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Re: Is disliking certain people consider an extreme ?

Post by chownah » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:31 pm

sentinel wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:54 pm
chownah wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:00 pm
Didn't the buddha say that one should not have ill will towards someone even if they are sawing off your arms and legs?
chownah
Text please , sawing off arms only in the story .
Non ill will yes , how would you react if challenge by other ? No feeling of aversion ?
MN 21 Kakacupama Sutta: The Simile of the Saw (excerpt)
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding. Even then you should train yourselves: 'Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate. We will keep pervading these people with an awareness imbued with good will and, beginning with them, we will keep pervading the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.' That's how you should train yourselves.

"Monks, if you attend constantly to this admonition on the simile of the saw, do you see any aspects of speech, slight or gross, that you could not endure?"

"No, lord."

"Then attend constantly to this admonition on the simile of the saw. That will be for your long-term welfare & happiness."

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words.
chownah

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