Anyone welcomes suffering?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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form
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Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by form » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:16 am

In the sense that they dun let life be too comfortable for them? Not in the sense that they torture their body like the ancient jains. By the way, is there any more jains that still do those things to their body?

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Sam Vara
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:37 am

It depends what you mean by "let life be too comfortable". I have known Theravadans give up on the pursuit of comfort in order to experience hardships and a degree of physical and mental discomfort. A monk who taught me meditation took to the road in very unpleasant conditions (winter in the UK) to simply deal with what arose. He could have stayed in a nice warm house and been fed delicious food every day. In a sense, going forth into the homeless life is a turning away from comforts that many of us take for granted. It seems to be the purpose of renunciation.

That's different from actively seeking out painful situations or rejecting any comfortable feelings that happen to arise. That's more like self-mortification.

You might be interested in this talk by Luang Phor Sumedho:

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books9/Ajah ... lcomed.htm

SarathW
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:07 am

Buddha very clearly said once you understand the suffering there is no more need to do the austerities.
However, indulgence is still discouraged.

I have discussed my own experienced in the following post. There is a lot of valuable input from others as well.

Seven days without pain killers.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16532&p=235526&hilit=
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

binocular
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by binocular » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:00 am

form wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:16 am
In the sense that they dun let life be too comfortable for them?
Epicureans come to mind.
Even as they are devoted to the pursuit of pleasure, they reign it in, so that they don't devolve into hedonists. This way, Epicureans actually get to enjoy life, while hedonists burn out.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

form
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by form » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:22 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:37 am
It depends what you mean by "let life be too comfortable". I have known Theravadans give up on the pursuit of comfort in order to experience hardships and a degree of physical and mental discomfort. A monk who taught me meditation took to the road in very unpleasant conditions (winter in the UK) to simply deal with what arose. He could have stayed in a nice warm house and been fed delicious food every day. In a sense, going forth into the homeless life is a turning away from comforts that many of us take for granted. It seems to be the purpose of renunciation.

That's different from actively seeking out painful situations or rejecting any comfortable feelings that happen to arise. That's more like self-mortification.

You might be interested in this talk by Luang Phor Sumedho:

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books9/Ajah ... lcomed.htm
For example if one has reached financial stability, in good health and has not much trouble with interpersonal relationships. Although, these are impermanent, the person may slack on his training because there is nothing to push him for now. But when things happened that made him dissatisfied or even suffered more, he started leaning towards the four noble truths to relieve his sufferings. So he see minor sufferings as an aid rather than hindrance.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:26 am

form wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:22 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:37 am
It depends what you mean by "let life be too comfortable". I have known Theravadans give up on the pursuit of comfort in order to experience hardships and a degree of physical and mental discomfort. A monk who taught me meditation took to the road in very unpleasant conditions (winter in the UK) to simply deal with what arose. He could have stayed in a nice warm house and been fed delicious food every day. In a sense, going forth into the homeless life is a turning away from comforts that many of us take for granted. It seems to be the purpose of renunciation.

That's different from actively seeking out painful situations or rejecting any comfortable feelings that happen to arise. That's more like self-mortification.

You might be interested in this talk by Luang Phor Sumedho:

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books9/Ajah ... lcomed.htm
For example if one has reached financial stability, in good health and has not much trouble with interpersonal relationships. Although, these are impermanent, the person may slack on his training because there is nothing to push him for now. But when things happened that made him dissatisfied or even suffered more, he started leaning towards the four noble truths to relieve his sufferings. So he see minor sufferings as an aid rather than hindrance.
Yes, as an aspect of practice, rightly grasped, I'd see that as very helpful.

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Antaradhana
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by Antaradhana » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:21 pm

No need to specifically expose yourself to suffering (moderate ascetic practices do not count). Life itself will add pain. Some doctors joke that if after 40 years, you have no chronic diseases and nothing hurts from time to time, it means that you have already died.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

sunnat
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by sunnat » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:49 am

The latent tendency is to reject or deny suffering. Path is to become aware of the constantly changing nature, its not-self characteristic and to see and understand suffering.

alfa
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by alfa » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:09 am

binocular wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:00 am
form wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:16 am
In the sense that they dun let life be too comfortable for them?
Epicureans come to mind.
Even as they are devoted to the pursuit of pleasure, they reign it in, so that they don't devolve into hedonists. This way, Epicureans actually get to enjoy life, while hedonists burn out.
Compared to the Epicurean way, even Buddhism seems a little extreme. Maybe the Epicurean way is the true middle path? :anjali:

binocular
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Re: Anyone welcomes suffering?

Post by binocular » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:28 pm

alfa wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:09 am
Maybe the Epicurean way is the true middle path?
For a worldly goal, yes.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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