In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

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SarathW
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In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by SarathW » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:50 pm

In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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cappuccino
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by cappuccino » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:56 pm

It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,

the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
Last edited by cappuccino on Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Antaradhana
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by Antaradhana » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:35 pm

If it comes to nibbana, then you need to immediately clarify whether it is a question of nibbana with a residue or nibbana without residual fuel.

With the onset of the final nibbana without residual fuel, the khandhas finally fall apart, the consciousness finally fades away, the existence ceases completely (bhava-nirodho), there is no more birth.

"The body is destroyed,
The perception stopped,
[Abhedi kāyo nirodhi saññā,]
All feelings have cooled,
[Vedanā sītibhaviṃsu sabbā,]
Mental constructions dispelled,
[Vūpasamiṃsu saṅkhārā,]
Consciousness faded away.
[Viññāṇaṃ atthamāgamā”ti.]


Udana 8.9

"He understands: "With the breakup of the body, following the exhaustion of life, all that is felt, not being delighted in, will become cool right here; mere bodily remains will be left"."

SN 12.51
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

pegembara
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by pegembara » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:55 am

"Monks, whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All processes are inconstant.
Both conditioned and unconditioned are present regardless there is arising of 'consciousness. For the arahant the activities of 'consciousness' goes out in final nibbana.
"And suppose someone were to ask you, 'This fire that has gone out in front of you, in which direction from here has it gone? East? West? North? Or south?' Thus asked, how would you reply?"

"That doesn't apply, Master Gotama. Any fire burning dependent on a sustenance of grass and timber, being unnourished — from having consumed that sustenance and not being offered any other — is classified simply as 'out' (unbound).

"Any consciousness by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising."
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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cappuccino
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:27 am

the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
just consider this

SarathW
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by SarathW » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:38 am

But the unconditioned is not a thing.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dinsdale
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:16 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:38 am
But the unconditioned is not a thing.
So what it is then, a state of mind? If so, it must be a state of mind which is independent of conditions.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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cappuccino
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:00 pm

unconditioned
2.
not formed or influenced by conditioning

Srilankaputra
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by Srilankaputra » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:39 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:50 pm
In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?
Hi Sarath,

What do you mean by released and what do you mean by unentangled ??
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:10 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:50 pm
In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?


In Nibbana, there is no consciousness [to get released or to get unentangled].



Because, there is no conditioned dhamma In Nibbana.



Some people confuse Nibbana with that non-existent so-called unconditioned consciousness. Because, they got doctrinated by teachings like this:
Geoff: I agree completely that vinanna anidassana is a synonym for Nibbana. It is referring to unconditioned (i.e. non-temporal) consciousness, which by any other name is Nibbana.
http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10
I'm sure many already know who that Geoff is.



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  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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cappuccino
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:14 am

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:In Nibbana, there is no consciousness.
:computerproblem:
Last edited by cappuccino on Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:17 am

annihilation is no refuge of any kind

except for unintelligent minds

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:20 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:14 am
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:In Nibbana, there is no consciousness.
there is unconditioned consciousness, not conditioned consciousness

that's why it's called the unconditioned

may be i need to repeat what i've just written:

Some people confuse Nibbana with that non-existent so-called unconditioned consciousness. Because, they got doctrinated by teachings like this:
Geoff: I agree completely that vinanna anidassana is a synonym for Nibbana. It is referring to unconditioned (i.e. non-temporal) consciousness, which by any other name is Nibbana.
http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10
I'm sure many already know who that Geoff is.



Image
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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cappuccino
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:21 am

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: maybe i need to repeat what i've just written:
you need to repeatedly practice

you need to speak only of what you know

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: In Nibbana, is consciousness released or unentangled itself?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:29 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:21 am
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: maybe i need to repeat what i've just written:
you need to repeatedly practice

you need to speak only of what you know
i would like to add some words:
you need to repeatedly practice [on the right path]
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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