What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by SarathW » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:42 am

What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

For instance some think self view is just a strategy .
Others think Nibbana is a real place or arahants do not exist after death.
Basically the question is what is the destination for people with wrong view?
What about the people who misinterpret Anatta?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Pondera
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Pondera » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:49 am

Hell or the animal womb. No exceptions.
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

sunnat
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by sunnat » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:13 am

destination.? dhammawheel.com of course, where they, with shame, good humour and with diligent (correct) practice, get back on track.
:anjali:

sentinel
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by sentinel » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:18 am

For example Christianity but has wrong view , they do wholesome action still get reborn in heaven .
:buddha1:

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Pondera
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Pondera » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:33 am

Nope. Christians go to Hell. Christians teach that Buddhists go to Hell - so we must adopt the middle way and send all the Christians to Hell. It is the only way to achieve balance.
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

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Sam Vara
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:36 am

Pondera wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:49 am
Hell or the animal womb. No exceptions.
If so, it might be better never to hear about Buddhism in the first place. Risking hell seems a high price to pay for honest but misguided endeavour.

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Sam Vara
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:48 am

Pondera wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:33 am
Nope. Christians go to Hell. Christians teach that Buddhists go to Hell - so we must adopt the middle way and send all the Christians to Hell. It is the only way to achieve balance.
Some Christians might teach that Buddhists go to hell, in the same way that some Buddhists teach things which are substantially different from other Buddhists. But it's not a significantly characteristic teaching. I live in a strongly Christian community and have never heard that teaching, or anything like it. One's understanding of Christianity is of course conditioned by the contact one has had with Christians, which is why it might be good to exercise circumspection around beliefs.

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DooDoot
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:51 am

Pondera wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:49 am
SarathW wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:42 am
What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?
Hell or the animal womb. No exceptions.
Similar to Angulimala, their destination is having the good fortune of a compassionate teacher correcting their wrong views. :twothumbsup:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Pondera
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Pondera » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:11 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:36 am
Pondera wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:49 am
Hell or the animal womb. No exceptions.
If so, it might be better never to hear about Buddhism in the first place. Risking hell seems a high price to pay for honest but misguided endeavour.
Almost exactly like the Christians.

They approached the islanders and preached the gospel. The islanders asked what happened if they chose not to believe. The Christians told them Hell.

The islanders asked “what if we’d never heard of Christ in the first place?”

The Cristians replied, “oh. Well. Nothing.”

“Then why’d you tell us!!!” The islanders exclaimed.
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

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Pondera
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Pondera » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:14 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:48 am
Pondera wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:33 am
Nope. Christians go to Hell. Christians teach that Buddhists go to Hell - so we must adopt the middle way and send all the Christians to Hell. It is the only way to achieve balance.
Some Christians might teach that Buddhists go to hell, in the same way that some Buddhists teach things which are substantially different from other Buddhists. But it's not a significantly characteristic teaching. I live in a strongly Christian community and have never heard that teaching, or anything like it. One's understanding of Christianity is of course conditioned by the contact one has had with Christians, which is why it might be good to exercise circumspection around beliefs.
Where I live (a moderately secular community which Grew up in a time of dominant Christianity) the price for not believing in God’s Sacrifice of His One and Only Son was an eternity in Hell.

If the Christian dogma doesn’t preach “believe in Christ or perish”, then where do the pagans go? What was the purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus?
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

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Pondera
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Pondera » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:16 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:51 am
Pondera wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:49 am
SarathW wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:42 am
What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?
Hell or the animal womb. No exceptions.
Similar to Angulimala, their destination is having the good fortune of a compassionate teacher correcting their wrong views. :twothumbsup:
Exactly! Finally we agree for once!!!

(What the phuck did he just say? Anyone? Paraphrasing?)
What is “rupa” Jhāna? Here are four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, rapture and equanimity - peacehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=1sdgpi ... hIz3wgz7ep

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anthbrown84
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by anthbrown84 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:22 am

How can we possibly know?

I have heard the account of someone who was apparently a once returner who said in a past life he was a priest to Shiva in the himalayas.

He had wrong view yet he was reborn relatively close to that life as a human being once again, this time becoming an anagami.

If one has wrong view that is not corrected, eventually everyone in this position goes down the line to the lower realms... What is important is we try to correct our own wrong views.

Anthony
"Your job in practise is to know the difference between the heart and the activity of the heart, that is it, it is that simple" Ajahn Tate

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Grigoris
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:23 am

Pondera wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:49 am
Hell or the animal womb. No exceptions.
Source?
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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DooDoot
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:31 am

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:23 am
Source?
Since hell is "painful feelings" and animal womb is "non-transcending" (lit: "moving horizontally"), obviously these are the destinations of those who don't penetrate the Teachings. Their minds continue to wallow in ignorance & dukkha.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Grigoris
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Re: What is the destination of the people who get Buddha's teachings wrong?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:36 am

anthbrown84 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:22 am
How can we possibly know?

I have heard the account of someone who was apparently a once returner who said in a past life he was a priest to Shiva in the himalayas.

He had wrong view yet he was reborn relatively close to that life as a human being once again, this time becoming an anagami.

If one has wrong view that is not corrected, eventually everyone in this position goes down the line to the lower realms... What is important is we try to correct our own wrong views.

Anthony
Merit is merit. That's the beauty of kamma.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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