Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

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Pulsar
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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Pulsar » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:14 pm

On one of the threads related to jhana I found this interesting or relevant comment made by Suaimhneas. This may explain why there is so much confusion around the word jhana. 
There is of of course this. 
Four steps called Arupas get inserted much later, after Buddha passed away, so naturally reasons for confusion arise right there in the canon.
However,  it is accepted that what is relevant for liberation, is only the four Buddhist jhana meditation which is called Right concentration (MN 117) Hence in other words does not this make 4 Arupas irrelevant for liberation of the buddhist practitioner?
Here is the excerpt from the other thread
Caodemarte wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:54 pm
Yes, pretty much all Theravadin meditation schools can be traced back to the first efforts in the 19th century, partially as a reaction to the perceived decline of Buddhism and explicitly as a reaction to Western colonialism (missionary activity being seen as an overt part of that). In more modern times Pa Auk Sayadaw and others talk about how they closeted themselves with texts and tried to recreate Theravadin meditation from books and personal experience. They did this because they could not find a living tradition. (This does not imply that their creations or recreations were incorrect or unhelpful.)
Suaimhneas responded
Sure, it doesn't mean recreations are wrong. I do think such experiences and techniques should be reproducible. There are maps (earlier texts and the the Visuddhimagga and Vimuttimagga manuals) even if the maps themselves are sometimes vague (and at times contradictory) and not always the clearest (and the manuals at some distance in time from the original texts). The maps should be able to get people into the general territory. Beyond that, I guess how a person or tradition reads the maps may result in them getting into a particular vicinity of that general territory or, vice versa, people's experiences may inform how they read the maps or which maps they favour in retrospectively figuring out how they ended up where they did. There's inevitably going to be an interplay between experiences and the texts/maps
Link to the thread viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35042&start=135
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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by chownah » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:57 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:14 pm

Four steps called Arupas get inserted much later, after Buddha passed away, so naturally reasons for confusion arise right there in the canon.
Unsubstantiated allegation.
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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Pulsar » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:41 pm

Chownah wrote
Unsubstantiated allegation
Yes we talked about this before. Is there a sutta in Sutta nipata that
refers to a special set of 4 arupas? Can you explain why this set is missing
in DN 2 Samannaphala Sutta? yet the practitioner has attained
cessation?
Rhys Davids points out the expressions used in this account (Samannaphala)
is in a Prakrit differing in dialect from Pali of pitakas, a priceless
source of information, of how ancient the sutta is.
In the 4th jhana, there is an imperturbable
phase, which is plenty, to experience cessation. :candle:

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by DooDoot » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:12 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:41 pm
Can you explain why this set is missing in DN 2 Samannaphala Sutta? yet the practitioner has attained cessation?
The scriptures appear very clear about the four arupa spheres, particularly those scriptures about the Three Knowledges and MN 140.

The scriptures about the Three Knowledges confirm the Buddha deliberately directed or bent (abhininnāmesiṃ) his mind to insight after the 4th jhana. In other words, the Buddha deliberately stopped his mind from naturally flowing into the four arupa spheres. These scriptures say:
With the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous disappearance of joy and grief, I entered upon and abided in the fourth jhāna, which has neither-pain-nor-pleasure and purity of mindfulness due to equanimity.

When my concentrated mind was thus purified, bright, unblemished, rid of imperfection, malleable, wieldy, steady, and attained to imperturbability, I directed it (abhininnāmesiṃ) to knowledge of the recollection of past nivasa.

https://suttacentral.net/mn4/en/bodhi
MN 140, which you appeared to claim is fake dhamma, is also very clear about this, where the Buddha discouraged Pukkusati from allowing his mind to incline to the natural development of the four arupa spheres, as follows:
Then there remains only consciousness, purified and bright.... Then there remains only equanimity, purified and bright, malleable, wieldy and radiant [4th jhana].... He understands thus: ‘If I were to direct this equanimity, so purified and bright, to the base of infinite space... to the base of infinite consciousness……to the base of nothingness…to the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception and to develop my mind accordingly, then this equanimity of mine, supported by that base, clinging to it, would remain for a very long time... this would be conditioned.... He does not form any condition or generate any volition tending towards either being or non-being. Since he does not form any condition or generate any volition tending towards either being or non-being, he does not cling to anything in this world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbāna. He understands thus: ‘Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being.’

https://suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi
Therefore, there is nothing in the suttas indicating the four arupa spheres are fake and were not practised by the Buddha & his Disciples. However, the suttas are also clear the four arupa spheres are not required for enlightenment; most explicitly said in SN 12.70 Susima Sutta.

Therefore, if there were reports of a meditator developing the arupa spheres prior to Arahantship; there is no reason here to say these reports are "fake". Such reports about arupa spheres are perfectly natural & reasonable.

Since there is a fetter about lust for arupa (SN 45.180); since arupa is one of the three types of becoming in Dependent Origination (SN 12.2) and since arupa is classed as an element (MN 115), it appears obvious "arupa" is a real or authentic teaching of the Buddha.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:41 pm
Rhys Davids points out the expressions used in this account (Samannaphala) is in a Prakrit differing in dialect from Pali of pitakas, a priceless source of information, of how ancient the sutta is.
It is proper or moral to quote Rhys Davids to ensure we do not misrepresent him; so we avoid the potential bad kamma of false speech. Regardless, Rhys Davids is not the Buddha. :smile:
chownah wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:57 pm
Unsubstantiated allegation.
Yes. It appears another unsubstantiated allegation; after 16 pages of discussion, where it seems the 1st unsubstantiated allegation was the title of the topic on page 1, namely "Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas". :roll:
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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by chownah » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:52 am

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:41 pm
Chownah wrote
Unsubstantiated allegation
Yes we talked about this before. Is there a sutta in Sutta nipata that
refers to a special set of 4 arupas? Can you explain why this set is missing
in DN 2 Samannaphala Sutta? yet the practitioner has attained
cessation?
Rhys Davids points out the expressions used in this account (Samannaphala)
is in a Prakrit differing in dialect from Pali of pitakas, a priceless
source of information, of how ancient the sutta is.
In the 4th jhana, there is an imperturbable
phase, which is plenty, to experience cessation. :candle:
None of this substantiates your allegation which is:
Four steps called Arupas get inserted much later, after Buddha passed away, so naturally reasons for confusion arise right there in the canon.
chownah

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:01 am

Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:41 pm
Is there a sutta in Sutta nipata that refers to a special set of 4 arupas?
No, but that doesn't prove anything, for there are a great many doctrinal formulas that are present in Pali prose suttas but missing from verse texts like the Suttanipāta, Dhammapada and Theragāthā. For example, in the whole of the Suttanipāta the four noble truths are mentioned only once, in the Dvayatānupassanāsutta, and even there they are not called "the four noble truths". Nor is the fourth noble truth called "the eightfold path". Nor are any of its eight factors listed.
Pulsar wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:41 pm
Can you explain why this set is missing in DN 2 Samannaphala Sutta? yet the practitioner has attained cessation?
Because the type of virtuoso described in the Sāmaññaphalasutta is one who has arrived at cessation in the sense of dukkhanirodha, not cessation in the sense of saññāvedayita-nirodha-samāpatti. It is only for one aspiring to the latter that the āruppas are a prerequisite.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by frank k » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:07 pm

in sutta nipata parayana vagga, it does mention some of the arupa samadhis, without referring it to it by standard names, being done by non buddhists. and it explains how to use those arupa samadhis to realize nirvana.

The sutta nipatas also never mention 4 jhanas by their standard names either (first jhana, second jhana, etc), so the lack of using standard nomenclature we shouldn't really read too much into it.

As for DN 2, my theory on why arupas are not mentioned, is because they're too subtle to have similes for. You'll notice everything else has similes, the 6 abhinna, 4 jhanas, 5 hindrances.
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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Pulsar » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:25 am

Ven. Dhammanando wrote
Because the type of virtuoso described in the Sāmaññaphalasutta is one who has arrived at cessation in the sense of dukkhanirodha, not cessation in the sense of saññāvedayita-nirodha-samāpatti. It is only for one aspiring to the latter that the āruppas are a prerequisite
A question here, there are many suttas where only the four jhanas are referred to, for the purpose of liberation. To give just two examples, MN 119 Kayagatasati and MN 39 The greater discourse at Assapura. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
At the end of MN 39 Buddha declares, a short excerpt from BB translation 
Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu such as this is called a recluse, a brahmin, one who has washed, one who has attained to knowledge, a holy scholar, a noble one, an Arahant
In such cases are we to assume, that  Buddha is using Dukkhanirodha as the method of liberation? In a general teaching of this nature why is 4 jhanas preferred?

In the Bodhisattva suttas where Buddha refers to his own awakening, MN 36 The greater Discourse to Saccaka 
MN 100 Sangarava sutta 
MN 4 Bhayabherava sutta
MN 85 To Prince Bodhi, Buddha resorts to the four jhanas, for his own awakening. Does this mean he awakened through Dukkhanirodha?
If so, is there a reason that Buddha chose to be liberated through dukkhanirodha and not saññāvedayita-nirodha-samāpatti?

Thank you for the clarification, relief!
To me the four jhanas make sense, so I would prefer dukkhanirodha  as a method of practice. Besides in the 4th jhana one gains imperturbability, a ready access to the immaterial state, and  the meditation progresses smoothly, meaning mind is free to experience and realize the truths without interference.

A question about 
saññāvedayita-nirodha-samāpatti
Is that a case where Buddha borrowed an upanishad term and replaced its content with his own teaching? (Buddha borrowed prevailing ideas like 4bv and tweaked it to suit his needs, or even the five precepts were borrowed from Jains but Buddha used these for a different purpose)

Regarding 
saññāvedayita-nirodha-samāpatti
can you pl. explain how and why it got introduced?
I have read that it was meant to be a unique meditative practice exclusive to Buddhism, and it was supposed to combine insight and serenity and provide liberating knowledge.
A state with such a name was practiced and held in high esteem by
Hindu yogins.
Some people think, that at this stage breathing comes to a stop (upanishad influence?),  but surely this is not Buddha's teaching? 
I am thankful you are here, you have confirmed what I always suspected, that the four Buddhist jhanas is all the practitioner requires to be free of the jail of samsara, this incessant suffering, which reminds me of the 'Scream' of Munch. :candle:

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:35 am

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:25 am
In a general teaching of this nature why is 4 jhanas preferred?
I suspect the reason that four-jhānas-only suttas outnumber four-jhānas-plus-āruppas suttas is that those with the potential to become a both-ways-liberated arahant are rarer creatures than those with the potential to become the kind of arahant who is less accomplished in samādhi.
Pulsar wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:25 am
A question about saññāvedayita-nirodha-samāpatti.

Is that a case where Buddha borrowed an upanishad term and replaced its content with his own teaching?
I wouldn't rule out the possibility, but in the surviving pre-Buddhist Upanishads I don't think there's anything whose name or description bears any resemblance to saññāvedayita-nirodha-samāpatti.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by DooDoot » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:29 am

Pulsar wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:25 am
that at this stage breathing comes to a stop (upanishad influence?)
There appears to be no awareness of breath in any jhana, according to the descriptions of jhana in the suttas, which is confirmed in the 4th jhana (after feelings cease & pure equanimity confirms the breathing cannot be sensed). It is unrelated to arupa or nirodha-samapatti. Your personal idea there is awareness of breathing in rupa jhana appears unsupported by the suttas.
SN 36.11 wrote:
When one has attained (samāpanna; entered) the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breathing has ceased.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
MN 118 clearly describes awareness of breathing but the rupa jhana descriptions do not. Obviously, if there was awareness of breathing in jhana, the Buddha would have described it, as he did in MN 118. When I was a beginner, in my 2nd retreat, I learned from Ajahn Buddhadasa's monk there are three levels of practise: (i) preparatory concentration; (ii) neighbourhood concentration; and (iii) jhana concentration.
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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Pulsar » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:08 pm

Pulsar is indebted to dear Ven Dhammanando for bringing up two
different kinds of cessation found in the Pali canon.
Here is what I uncovered of this state, by doing a literature search.

Of all the meditative attainments, the state of saññāvedayitanirodha is definitely the most difficult to achieve.
This attainment is not available to any ‘ordinary men’, but only to the Arahants and the Non-Returners (anāgāmi) who have developed both the four jhānas and the four arūpas

If so why would we attempt the so-called 'Arupas' whose only advantage is leading to a cessation accessible to the Arahants and Non-Returners?
It makes no sense that popular teachers teach this method in their pricy retreats, do these teachers also promise the ultimate liberation at the end of the ten-day retreat?
If so, every penny is worth it.
Leaving humor aside, can we disregard the "Arupas"
until we become non-returners? just pulsar's passing sensible thought.

There is a great deal of confusion in the literature regarding this state, the name as such is not found in the current Upanishads but there are current yogic descriptions that match this state.
That saññāvedayitanirodha embodies the essence of the yogic meditation is quite obvious, breath restraint, the inactivity of the senses and the cessation of the mind
 
An excerpt: The following passages from the
Hathayogapradīpikā and from the Nādabindu Upanisad
reveal that this is indeed the case: 
Such a one does not hear the noise of the conch and Dundubhi. Being in the Unmanī, his body becomes like a piece of wood
There is no doubt,
such a Yogi becomes free from all states, from all cares, and remains like one dead. He is not devoured by death, is not bound by his actions. the Yogi who is engaged in Samādhiis is overpowered by none.  Yogi, engaged in Samādhi, feels neither smell, taste, color, touch, sound, nor is conscious of his own self
He whose mind is neither sleeping, waking, remembering, destitute of memory, disappearing nor appearing, is liberated. He feels neither heat, cold, pain, pleasure, respect nor disrespect. Such a Yogi is absorbed in Samādhi. He who, though awake, appears like one sleeping,
and is without inspiration and expiration,
is certainly free.
The Yogi, engaged in Samādhi, cannot be killed by any instrument
and is beyond the controlling powers of beings. He is beyond the reach of incantations and charms. ... Being freed from all states and all thoughts whatever, the Yogin remains like one dead. He is a Mukta,  he does not at any time hear the sounds of conch or Dundubhi (large kettle drum), body in the state of Unmanīis certainly like a log and does not feel heat or cold, joy or sorrow"

An excerpt from our own Ven BB's Middle lengths. In the introduction To Majjhima Nikaya on p 41,

"Several sequences of meditative states mentioned in the Majjhima culminates in
an attainment called the cessation of perception and feeling
(same canon presents contradictory evidence elsewhere, this is Pulsars observation). Although this state always follows the last immaterial attainment, it is not, as may be supposed, merely one high step in the scale of concentration.
Strictly speaking, the attainment of cessation pertains neither to serenity nor insight
It is a state reached by the combined powers of serenity and insight in which
all mental processes are suspended
The attainment is said to be accessible only to non-returners and Arahants, who have mastered the jhanas and immaterial states. Detailed canonical discussions of it are found in MN 43 and MN 44
So writes Ven. BB.

These two later suttas fed into the mouths of Sariputta and Dhammadina have created endless mental proliferations that lead none to Dukkhanirodha. 
Considering all of the above, it makes sense to settle for the 4 buddhist jhanas and Dukkhanirodha, explained so well in one of the most ancient suttas of the canon, DN2 Samannaphala sutta, in the simplest possible language. (also in Kayagatasati sutta and others). The 4 jhanas go hand in hand with the Four establishments of mindfulness, they complement each other, in leading one to dukkhanirodha.

Keren Arbel in Early Buddhist Meditation discusses the relevance of
Early Buddhist meditation that leads to Dukkhanirodha. :candle:

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Pulsar » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:54 am

frank k wrote
in sutta nipata parayana vagga, it does mention some of the arupa samadhis, without referring it to it by standard names, being done by non buddhists. and it explains how to use those arupa samadhis to realize nirvana.

The sutta nipatas also never mention 4 jhanas by their standard names either (first jhana, second jhana, etc), so the lack of using standard nomenclature we shouldn't really read too much into it
Sorry for not replying earlier, had to explore early Abhidhamma, it became quite fascinating.
will share those thoughts soon enough.
I appreciate your comment. As for sutta nipata I have read comments by scholars. And definitely in the
case of Parayanavagga, they agree that they all refer to 4 jhanas, although
the 4 jhanas are not spoken of. This is my gut feeling too, one has to go with one's
own understanding. But as for the remaining suttas in Sutta nipata, and after the comment of Ven.
Dhammanando, I see them in a new light. Reading Ven. BB before, he stated somewhere
that the canon leaves some things open ended, for the meditator to fill in.
Regarding your saying
it does mention some of the arupa samadhis, without referring it to it by standard names, being done by non buddhists. and it explains how to use those arupa samadhis to realize nirvana
Can you give me the verse numbers of Sutta Nipata, where it explains Arupas? for I do not recall this?

You wrote
As for DN 2, my theory on why arupas are not mentioned, is because they're too subtle to have similes for. You'll notice everything else has similes, the 6 abhinna, 4 jhanas, 5 hindrances
Pulsar does not quite agree with this, but thanks for your impression, I will explain later. I also dug up quite a bit
on how saññāvedayitanirodha got introduced to the canon. Had to spend quite a while with my nose in
Abhidhmma, the time before even Vasubandu, when radical thinking was abundant after the passing away
of Buddha, and some were forceful enough to get into Theravada.
A fascinating love story :heart:

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Pulsar » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:48 am

frank k wrote
As for DN 2, my theory on why arupas are not mentioned, is because they're too subtle to have similes for
It is true there are no similes for the so called four Arupas in the canon,  
these were not practiced by Buddhists at Buddha's time, only by non-buddhist ascetics.
They were introduced through an influential text written by Dharmasri after Buddha's
passing away. His work on Abhidhammma has been called "Abhidharmsara"
You can read an analysis of it, in "Studies in Abhidharma Literature and the Origins of Buddhist Philosophical Systems' by Erich Frauwallner. 
However there is a simile for imperturbability in the canon, which belongs to the immaterial phase of 4th jhana.  Cessation follows right after.
There is no insertion of 4 arupas as such between 4th jhana and cessation, the immateriality or imperturbability is built into 4th jhana, in the original teaching.
From DN 2 "Samannaphala sutta" the simile for imperturbability or immateriality 
The Mind-made Body
"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability,
he directs and inclines it to creating a mind-made body.
From this body he creates another body, endowed with form, made of the mind,
complete in all its parts, not inferior in its faculties. 
Just as if a man were to draw a reed from its sheath.
The thought would occur to him:
'This is the sheath, this is the reed. The sheath is one thing, the reed another,
but the reed has been drawn out from the sheath.
'Or as if a man were to draw a sword from its scabbard. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the sword, this is the scabbard.
The sword is one thing, the scabbard another,
but the sword has been drawn out from the scabbard.
' Or as if a man were to pull a snake out from its slough. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the snake, this is the slough. The snake is one thing, the slough another, but the snake has been pulled out from the slough.'
In the same way — with his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to creating a mind-made body. From this body he creates another body, endowed with form, made of the mind, complete in all its parts, not inferior in its faculties.
"This, too, great king, is a fruit of the contemplative life, visible here and now, more excellent than the previous ones and more sublime"
:heart:

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by chownah » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:11 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:48 am

It is true there are no similes for the so called four Arupas in the canon,  
these were not practiced by Buddhists at Buddha's time, only by non-buddhist ascetics.
They were introduced through an influential text written by Dharmasri after Buddha's
passing away. His work on Abhidhammma has been called "Abhidharmsara"
You can read an analysis of it, in "Studies in Abhidharma Literature and the Origins of Buddhist Philosophical Systems' by Erich Frauwallner. 
Just a note on Frauwallner....this is from the wikipedia article on him....I have only brought part of the summary of his academic work but the rest of the article is interesting also and in my view everything it says leads me to be very very sceptical of anything he may have written:
Frauwallner also tended to construct historical narratives using the nineteenth-century concept of degeneration to argue that simple, original, pure forms of philosophy gradually changed into more complex, degenerate forms, identifying complexity with decadence.[8] Such a-priori interpretative schemes are no longer acceptable in the contemporary academy.
With the preconceived notion of degeneration it is no wonder that he constructed a narrative where the pali canon was corrupted after the buddha's death......

I think that his work is likely spreading misconceptions about arupa jhanas.
chownah

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Re: Jhanas, Misconceptions that have arisen regarding the Four Rupa Jhanas.

Post by Pulsar » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:13 pm

Chownah it is true there is negative stuff written about Erich Frauwallner, they are related to his
political beliefs.
His work on Abhidhamma is a whole other matter, Even Rupert Gethin recognizes him as a great scholar.
To judge him one needs to read his work on Abhidhamma. His brilliance, the depth of his work baffles me. I get a headache
reading about all the schools that thrived, the variations. I spent a whole lot of time
exploring these scholasticisms the past week. Is that time well spent? but it educated me on
how various schools, (there were about 18) understood, and interpreted the teaching
of Buddha, how the thoughts of one School infected another, when they were
forceful. It was amazing to learn of the theories of Sautrantikas, but most of that work
was burnt by others.
Not everything any scholar says need to be true, no one is perfect. But to delve into the depths of scholasticism that prevailed before Vasubandu and during his time, that needed some kind of grey matter.
There is an enormous truth in what he says,
"Buddha presented his teachings and asked the followers who understood it to
to meditate"
Meditation is all we have to do to reach the end of suffering, and it does not
require the so called 4 arupas borrowed from other practitioners.
We are only looking for
the end of suffering Dukkhanirodha, that only requires the 4 jhanas presented,
in Sammanaphala sutta. We do not need E. Frauwallner to tell us that. What he explains
is the intricacies and disputes that arose among the various schools of the time.
It is not his idea only. Here is another text that supports this idea.
Seven works of
Vasubandhu, the Buddhist Psychological Doctor

by Stefan Anacker. Anacker presents the same thesis.
:candle:

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