Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Volo
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by Volo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:58 pm

Ruud wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:34 pm
You do seem to assume a lot about the people you interact with. You do not know about my or others acceptance of the suttas, beliefs and readings.
Let it be. It's not the first time he demonstrates such behavior. Anyway, sutta references are provided, everyone can now decide by him/herself, who is more convincing. So far I don't see anyone siding with budo.

Ruud
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by Ruud » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:23 am

budo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:29 pm
You're trying to make this about me, it's basically ad-hominem fallacy, i.e. to make the argument about the speaker/writer rather than the argument at hand.
I am doing no such thing. I am merely making an observation based on our interaction. I never said your argument was wrong because of this.

budo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:29 pm
I just read and interpret the suttas.
So do I.
budo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:29 pm
You're free to believe and do whatever you wish. I'm free to state my opinion, you're free to state yours.
Thank you.
budo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:29 pm
So far I've debunked your false claims about Ariyas, and provided sutta references.
I never made any 'false claims' about Ariyas. The OP asked about rituals to become a Buddhist. Some people (including me) provided reference that refuge would be closest to such a ritual, taken within the right context. You claim that only Ariyas can take refuge. From there we ended up in this whole rabbit-hole, where both provided references, meanwhile losing sight of the original intent of the thread (I admit to be guilty of that to to some extent).
budo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:29 pm
That's all I do, is provide sutta references, whether or not you agree with those references is none of my concern.

The thing about no-self is not only do you need to recognize no self in yourself, but also in others. If you think I am concerned with individuals on this forum, then you give me too much credit. It doesn't matter to me who I am engaging with and what their individual ceremonies or rituals are. I simply reference suttas, it's up to them to decide what to do with that information.
I think that if you would make it more of your concern, just enough to not just beat people over the head with sutta references and actually try to relate to their views, it would make for a more fruitful interaction and a more caring and considerate Buddhism
Dry up what pertains to the past,
do not take up anything to come later.
If you will not grasp in the middle,
you will live at peace.
—Snp.5.11,v.1099 (tr. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)

Whatever is will be was. —Ven. Ñānamoli, A Thinkers Notebook, §221

budo
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by budo » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:10 am

Ruud wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:23 am

I think that if you would make it more of your concern, just enough to not just beat people over the head with sutta references and actually try to relate to their views, it would make for a more fruitful interaction and a more caring and considerate Buddhism
It's amazing how people go to such great lengths to quiet or censor people who throw a wrench into their ideological machinery.

The ego is that invested huh.

You worry about your conduct, I'll worry about mine.

Your comments about my conduct are ad hominem and off topic.

Ruud
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by Ruud » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:24 am

budo wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:10 am
...
I'm sorry to see you misinterpret my intentions. The last thing I want to do is censor people. All I want is an open dialog, helpful to the OP and us, with respect to both sides.
I think we have reached the end of this exchange, I feel not much useful ground can be gained on this subject anymore for now.
Dry up what pertains to the past,
do not take up anything to come later.
If you will not grasp in the middle,
you will live at peace.
—Snp.5.11,v.1099 (tr. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)

Whatever is will be was. —Ven. Ñānamoli, A Thinkers Notebook, §221

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mikenz66
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:19 am

santa100 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:17 pm
thomaslaw wrote:For a person to become a Buddhist in the Theravada tradition, does any ritual have to perform?
Some ritual is usually performed when one takes refuge in the Triple Gem, but does it "have to be performed"? No.
However, it is something I find useful in maintaining my faith. Here's Ajahn Sumedho on ritual: viewtopic.php?t=21616&start=30#p310828
Ajahn Sumedho: I personally like rituals. They are quite pleasant to do; they are calming. One does them with a group of people. It is doing something that is pleasant, together and in unison. The intention is always good: to radiate kindness and to chant the teachings of the Buddha in Pali. It tends to uplift and inspire the minds of many people. That is its only function as far as I can tell.
...
:heart:
Mike

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Sam Vara
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:49 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:19 am
santa100 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:17 pm
thomaslaw wrote:For a person to become a Buddhist in the Theravada tradition, does any ritual have to perform?
Some ritual is usually performed when one takes refuge in the Triple Gem, but does it "have to be performed"? No.
However, it is something I find useful in maintaining my faith. Here's Ajahn Sumedho on ritual: viewtopic.php?t=21616&start=30#p310828
Ajahn Sumedho: I personally like rituals. They are quite pleasant to do; they are calming. One does them with a group of people. It is doing something that is pleasant, together and in unison. The intention is always good: to radiate kindness and to chant the teachings of the Buddha in Pali. It tends to uplift and inspire the minds of many people. That is its only function as far as I can tell.
...
:heart:
Mike
:goodpost: Good quote from Ajahn Sumedho. It's worth noting that Sumedho doesn't think that it has the function of conferring a particular status - "a Buddhist" for example - on the participants. It's about intending rather than defining.

binocular
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:57 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:19 am
However, it is something I find useful in maintaining my faith. Here's Ajahn Sumedho on ritual: viewtopic.php?t=21616&start=30#p310828
Ajahn Sumedho: I personally like rituals. They are quite pleasant to do; they are calming. One does them with a group of people. It is doing something that is pleasant, together and in unison. The intention is always good: to radiate kindness and to chant the teachings of the Buddha in Pali. It tends to uplift and inspire the minds of many people. That is its only function as far as I can tell.
...
Is this a description or a prescription?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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mikenz66
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:06 am

binocular wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:57 am
Is this a description or a prescription?
A description I think. It's an interview, not a treatise...

:heart:
Mike

sunnat
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by sunnat » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:20 am

Devotional rituals, puja, can be helpful in debasing self. May the Buddha walk on me, not in the mud. Loosening the attachment to self. Also, after a long sit, a good spine stretch is nice.

binocular
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:12 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:06 am
A description I think.
Then it is an inaccurate one.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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mikenz66
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:50 pm

binocular wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:12 am
mikenz66 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:06 am
A description I think.
Then it is an inaccurate one.
I presume it's an accurate description of Ajahn Sumedho's opinion. :tongue:

Did you read the interview, or just the single paragraph I quoted?

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Mike

binocular
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by binocular » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:48 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:50 pm
I presume it's an accurate description of Ajahn Sumedho's opinion.
He doesn't state it as merely his opinion, but as an absolute. Hence, it's a veiled prescription.
Did you read the interview, or just the single paragraph I quoted?
Yes, and I know his teachings.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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mikenz66
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Re: Ritual for becoming a Buddhist

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:47 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:48 am
Yes, and I know his teachings.
Ok then... :smile:

Mike

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